Doug Hoffman, NY district 23 election, Update, November 23, 2009, Voting machine failure, Virus, Ghost in the Machine, Sequoia/Dominion ImageCast voting machines, pilot program

The spectre of voting machine failure and voter fraud still lingers over the NY District 23 election between Doug Hoffman and Bill Owens.

The Gouverneur Times is reporting today, November 23, 2009.

“Ghost in the Machine”

“John Conklin, Communications Director for the New York State Board of Elections issued a statement Friday evening alleging that an article published by our on-line newspaper, The Gouverneur Times, was factually incorrect. This statement was reported Friday in the Watertown Daily Times.

Mr. Conklin’s rebuke is a very misleading press release issued on the behalf of the NY SBoE.”

“Below is a brief review of the November 3rd, 2009 elections…

In Lewis, Schuyler and Seneca Counties, ImageCast ballot scanners failed.

In Broome County, hand counts revealed the ImageCast ballot scanners in five voting districts had miscounted votes. In some cases the machines rejected valid ballots.

In Cayuga County, again ImageCast ballot scanners crashed. Some rejected valid ballots that other machines accepted.

In Fulton County, ImageCast ballot scanners were impounded after it was found they were not working properly.

In Steuben County, the ImageCast ballot scanner in the first ward malfunctioned.

In Oneida County, at the Vernon polling place, none of the three ImageCast optical scanners would operate.

In Jefferson County, inspectors from four districts claim that “human error” resulted in their “mistakenly” entering 0 votes for Hoffman in several districts, resulting in Owens leading Jefferson County on election night though a recanvas of the computer counts showed that Hoffman was actually leading.

In St. Lawrence County, machines in Louisville, Waddington, Claire, and Rossie “broke” early in the voting process on Election Day.  Republican Commissioner Deborah Pahler said that the machines kept “freezing up… like Windows does all the time”. Frank Hoar, an attorney for the Democratic Party, initially ordered the impound of malfunctioning machines but released the order on Nov. 5th so that Bill Owens could be sworn in to Congress in time to vote on the House Health bill on November 7th.

Jude Seymour, a reporter for the Watertown Daily Times, declared the Gouverneur Times story on the ‘virus’ issue a ‘Hoax’. He referred  to a prior article he had authored on the 13th of November, where he quotes Anna E. Svizzero, the state’s Elections Operation Director in her claims that the state’s pilot program “was very successful.”

The State elections on November 3rd, using the Sequoia/Dominion ImageCast machines were a ‘pilot program’.

Mr.Lipari states that the corrective action applied was modification of the configuration file; but according to a technician for Dominion, the owners of the ImageCast system, “the insertion of a line of code, into the source code of the machines” was the corrective action taken.

Regarding what was done to correct the ‘memory’ problem just days immediately prior to the elections; pursuant to State Election Law 7-202.2, “When any change is made in the operation or material of any feature or component of any machine or system which has been approved pursuant to the provisions of this section, such machine or system must be submitted for re-examination and re-approval pursuant to the provisions of subdivision one of this section”

Subdivision one states that… “The state board of elections shall cause the machine or system to be examined and a report of the examination to be made and filed in the office of the state board. Such examination shall include a determination as to whether the machine or system meets the requirements of section 7-202 of this title and a thorough review and testing of any electronic or computerized features of the machine or system…. Any form of voting machine or system not so approved, cannot be used in any election.”

“Given the now known number of machine failures that occurred on election day, due in part to the ‘known bug’ in the software, it is apparent that a thorough review and testing of the ImageCast machines utilized throughout the 23rd congressional district and other districts throughout the State of New York was not accomplished according to the explicit requirements of New York State Election Law.”

We in the 23rd were the subject of a ‘beta test, pilot program’, in the midst of a very important election. There were many problems as a result of this ‘test’. The integrity, credibility and voter confidence in this election is severely challenged as a result. A manual hand count needs to be accomplished in order to assure the voters that the Sequoia/Dominion ImageCast machines worked and worked accurately. Not doing so will forever taint the results of this ‘beta test’ election as well as future elections.

It is not a matter of who won or who lost… it is a matter of our constitutional right to a fair, open and honest election process without vendors protecting their interests (Sequoia), or a State covering their collective <actions>… at the expense of the voting process itself.

“We the people…”;

One person, One vote.”

Read more:

http://www.gouverneurtimes.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=8311:ghost-in-the-machine&catid=98:publishers-corner&Itemid=206

John Charlton of the Post & Email provides some background on the voting machines.

“COMPANY WITH TIES TO CHAVEZ UPDATED SOFTWARE DAYS BEFORE ELECTION TO “FIX” THE PROBLEM”
 “Nathan Barker of The Gouverner Times has reported a series of facts which seemingly support Dough Hoffman’s allegations that there was massive Election fraud in the special election for the NY-23 House seat:

1. The software used in the voting machines is made by a company controlled by the Venezuelan dictator, Chavez;

2. A virus was found in the machines used in one district, only days before the election;

3. Other districts were not informed of the existence of the virus;

4. The voting machines lack security for introduction of multiple ballots at a time,

5. And election officials lack expertise to determine whether the company’s fix of the problems was done in a manner which returned the voting machines’ capacity to tally impartially election-night results.”

Read more:

http://thepostnemail.wordpress.com/2009/11/19/virus-introduced-into-sequoia-voting-machines-in-ny-23/

I have been getting warnings about these voting machines, software and the ties to Chavez and Venezuela for at least a year.

We must demand an investigation.

133 responses to “Doug Hoffman, NY district 23 election, Update, November 23, 2009, Voting machine failure, Virus, Ghost in the Machine, Sequoia/Dominion ImageCast voting machines, pilot program

  1. Everybody here….go to the website and vote….there is also a phone number to call….I am going to call this morning and ask if they can move the billboard to DC in front of where the Senate Debates the Death Care Bill after Thanks giving and maybe get around the clock protesting going…..I wish I lived closer because I for one would be up there at least once a week protesting this Unconstitutional Bill and our illegal POTUS….Pass this far and wide…..every blog and every email contact you have….found at…..

    http://www.kdvr.com/news/kdvr-obama-billboard-112009,0,2612065.story

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Anti-Obama billboard stirs controversy

    KDVR Denver

    6:20 PM MST, November 20, 2009
    Anti-Obama Billboard

    The Anti-Obama billboard at 4855 Miller Street in Wheat Ridge, Colorado. (November 20, 2009)
    Related links

    *
    Your Opinion Vote

    WHEAT RIDGE, Colo. – Call it Freedom of Speech. A billboard recently erected in Wheat Ridge compares President Barack Obama to a terrorist and questions his U.S. citizenship.

    The billboard, located at 4855 Miller Road, shows two cartoonish images of Obama wearing a Muslim turban and reads “PRESIDENT or JIHAD?”

    It also says “BIRTH CERTIFICATE – PROVE IT!” alluding to the conspiracy theory which claims Barack Obama was born in Kenya rather than Hawaii, which would disqualify him for the office of President.

    The words “WAKE UP AMERICA! REMEMBER FT. HOOD!” appear on the bottom of the billboard.

    The sign belongs to a car dealership.

    “Since Fort Hood, I’ve had it,” owner Phil West told FOX 31 News Friday. “You can’t suggest things. You can’t profile. You gotta call a spade a spade.”

    “Everything I have read about Mr. Obama points right to the fact that he is a Muslim. And that is the agenda of what Muslim is all about. It’s about anti-American, it’s about anti-Christianity,” West said.

    The Anti-Defamation League condemned the sign, as did AM760 radio host David Sirota, who discussed the sign and interviewed West on his program Friday morning.

    “It’s out of control,” Sirota said. “This conservative hatred of Barack Obama is out of contol, and this brings together all those strands of it: the racism, the anti-Muslim fervor. It’s one thing to criticise the president on health care, or Wall Street reform, or immigration. But this is outrageous. And I think it’s a fair question to ask why these questions about religion and ancestry are being directed so viciously at the first African-American President of the United States.”

    While the ADL issued a statement calling the billboard an exploitation of the Ft. Hood shootings that is “divisive and offensive, and perpetuates hateful and harmful stereotypes about Muslims”, prominent conservatives have been silent thus far.

    “That could suggest that conservative leaders are afraid to confront the extreme fringe of their base,” Sirota said. “Or it suggests they actually condone this message. Either way, it’s disturbing.”

    Sirota is an unabashed liberal, but not all self-identified conservatives who drove past the sign Friday disagree with him.

    “I’m not concerned with that at all,” said Linda Alexander, of Golden, in regard to the dispute over President Obama’s American citizenship. “He was elected, he’s the president — that’s it, as far as I’m concerned. Some people just can’t accept that, obviously.”

    But Keith Walters, another passing driver, saw nothing wrong with the billboard.

    “I can’t honestly say he’s a Jihadist, but there’s a lot of things that are questionable,” Walters said. “The whole birth certificate controversy. From what I’ve read, there’s no proof Obama isn’t a Muslim. And I don’t believe there’s any racism [in the billboard]. I think that should be a question asked to any president who — they have some questionable backgrounds.”

    Supporters of the birth certificate theory, known as ‘Birthers,’ believe the Certification of Live Birth produced by the state of Hawaii is a forgery.

  2. We probably all had a gut feeling about the NY23 voting…

  3. Jacqlyn, Thanks, I’m on it!!

  4. We in the 23rd were the subject of a ‘beta test, pilot program’, in the midst of a very important election.
    ***************************
    Absolutely fricking DUH with all caps.

    HELLO???

    Does this country not get it??? We are aware, the giant is awake, and every move is being monitored, watched, scrutinized more and more; who’s looking like idiots now??

  5. TO:
    venice // November 23, 2009 at 8:20 am

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/washington/2009/11/not-that-it-matters-politically-because-shes-a-republican-idiot-and-hes-a-democrat-geniusbut-sarah-palins-poll-numbers-are-c.html

    Palin vs. Obama – the approval gap shrinks.
    =====================

    WOW…LATimes story had some great eye opening issues they are even more amazing when you consider it is in an Erosionist Lieberal newspaper that withheld bad info on Obamateur during the campaign and still not releasing a damaging video.

    From article:

    […]

    Everybody thinks 2012 when they think of Palin, who last week pushed Oprah’s show to….

    … its highest ratings in nearly three years. Remember, though, in 2012 the first hurdles a rehabbed candidate Palin would face are her own party’s primaries, where diligent conservatives conscientiously come out to play.
    If she somehow mobilized Iowa’s white evangelicals as Mike Huckabee did to win the 2008 season-opening caucus, many bets would be off about her unelectability. Right now, Palin holds 65% approval among white evangelical Protestants, not a bad place to start, if she decides to.

    That same ABC poll finds Palin’s GOP approval right around 76%, 45% among independents and a surprisingly substantial 21% among Democrats. Among self-described liberals she’s seen favorably by a slightly larger 22%, among moderates 38% and among conservatives 60%.

    Anyway, Palin says 2012’s not on her radar. Which is a good idea. The year 2010 is much more important for both of these political personalities.

    No longer holding any office and personally set financially by the book’s runaway success, Palin can devote her SarahPac and the entire year to collecting chits from local Republicans.

    As Mitt Romney has already been quietly doing. Other Republicans will no doubt nominate themselves to join along the way, especially if Obama looks vulnerable after November 2010.

    Although presidential incumbency has hardly kept Obama chained to the Oval Office, he and Joe Biden now own the U.S. economy, where their much-vaunted $787 billion economic stimulus package has so far stimulated unemployment to grow by a quarter from 8% to more than 10%.

    And then there’s the growing deficit dread and the mounting costs — both human and financial — in the increasingly unpopular Afghan conflict, where Obama is about to commit more U.S. troops at the end of the eighth and worst casualty year of the war.

    We’ll all hear much next year about how jobs are the last thing to improve in a sour economy, even in congressional districts that don’t actually exist. Which is too bad for Democrats because jobs are the obvious first measure the public uses to measure the economy.

    Historically, the White House party loses about 17 House seats in a normal midterm election cycle. That wouldn’t change control of the House.

    George W. Bush’s GOP actually gained seats in 2002. Democrat Bill Clinton’s first midterm election was a political Katrina, producing the Contract with America and so-called Republican Revolution that saw the GOP take control of both houses of Congress after years of minority status.

    Much of that turnaround was attributed to Clinton having run in 1992 as a centrist and then immediately pushed a more liberal agenda involving something called healthcare reform.

    But that couldn’t possibly happen again because of the popularity of Democratic House Speaker Nancy Pelosi whose current favorable poll ratings are — let’s see here — OMG, only about half of Palin’s.

  6. Jacqlyn

    Poll now at 86.5 agree………

  7. I read somewhere that Hoffman was considering contesting the results but had a deadline coming up real soon in which he had to declare this.

    Does anyone know if this will be happening?

  8. TO:
    sandy // November 23, 2009 at 10:10 am

    I read somewhere that Hoffman was considering contesting the results but had a deadline coming up real soon in which he had to declare this.

    Does anyone know if this will be happening?
    ===========

    He better contest and call for a FULL INVESTIGATION into the machines and humans running these elections. Only a suicidal moron wouldn’t attack when the opponent is exposing weakness

  9. Those same,” Sequoia”, voting machines had votes loaded into them, prior to the Honduran election, that would have guaranteed a victory for Zelaya and allow him to stay in office.

    Zelaya was attempting to change the Honduran Constitution so he could stay in office despite the term limits that said his term was over.

    Obama backed Zelaya’s usurping of the Presidency in Honduras, and wanted him reinstated, after he was arrested by the military and exiled from the country.

    Maybe we can learn something from the Hondurans who have already dealt with Sequoia voting machine fraud.

    The relationship between Obama, Chavez, and Zelaya looks suspect to me, and an automatic recount should be done any time these machines are used.

    If it is possible to load votes into the machines prior to an election these machines should be banned from use. These machines make cheating too easy. We should demand an investigation and recount the votes from any election these machines were used in.

    We should do as they do in Iraq and have voters dip their finger into ink to show they have voted, to prevent the Chicago policy of voting early and voting often.

  10. This came from one of my Catholic friends who lives in Wichita Kansas…..when will the Kennedy’s get a clue…..they along with many of the other Catholic politicians who are DemoCRAPS are hypocrites and need to find a different faith if they can’t abide by the teachings of the Catholic Church….why would one belong to a faith you are trying to prove to the public needs to accept abortion rights when the Catholic Church never will do that…..bunch of LIBERAL MORONS!!! Read the entire story at………

    http://ww2.cox.com/myconnection/kansas/today/news/national/article.cox?moduleType=apNews&articleId=D9C4UOT80

  11. #

    ARMY D.A.V. // November 23, 2009 at 10:10 am

    Jacqlyn

    Poll now at 86.5 agree………
    !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Army and Carmen…..thanks for voting….let’s make this go viral….and please push for this billboard to move to DC and a 24/7 protest in front of the politicians who are debating garbage bills that don’t mean a thing until the citizenship issue is settled!!!

  12. The Erosionist Lieberals and Landrieu used PAY for PLAY. Besides us, the taxpayers, being the biggest fools in this scheme the other Liebs were fooled as well. The Repubs should use this fact to instigate other Liebs to feel like fools for “giving” their vote for FREE when Landrieu CASHED IN a huge Jackpot of Pay for Play money.

    Hey Liebs how foolish are you to give your vote away for nothing? How will you explain to your constittuents that you brought no PORK home when Landrieu cashed in BIG TIME?

  13. #

    sandy // November 23, 2009 at 10:10 am

    I read somewhere that Hoffman was considering contesting the results but had a deadline coming up real soon in which he had to declare this.

    Does anyone know if this will be happening?
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Sandy….I know he unconceded…..whatever that means!

  14. TO:
    Jacqlyn Smith // November 23, 2009 at 10:18 am

    This came from one of my Catholic friends who lives in Wichita Kansas…..when will the Kennedy’s get a clue…..they along with many of the other Catholic politicians who are DemoCRAPS are hypocrites and need to find a different faith if they can’t abide by the teachings of the Catholic Church….why would one belong to a faith you are trying to prove to the public needs to accept abortion rights when the Catholic Church never will do that…..bunch of LIBERAL MORONS!!! Read the entire story at………
    =================

    Sorry but as a Catholic I disagree. Most Catholics are HYPOCRITS they talk against abortion BUT their actions in voting for ABORTIONISTS are hypocritical. Obama won with the votes and support of most churches, priests and Catholic votes. These Catholic IGNORAMUS keep voting for the ABORTIONISTS for Money and misguided reasoning. They believe the LIE that Dems are for the poor and help the poor. This is what has blinded them into ignorance and STUPIDITY. They support those that destroy Religion and Families EVERYDAY. I deal with them in my Portuguese family and friends all the time. There is no talking reason and reality to this Brainwashed sheep.

    When you ask them specific questions they answer as conservatives but in the whole they lie to themsleves because of decades of brainwashing into believing the LIE that Liebs help the poor.

    In my own church I had to speak very quietly to the secretary about Obamateur before the election because she said all the priests supported him and they would be upset and possibly fire her if she was overheard talking to me about the FRAUD.

    TIME TO WAKE UP Catholics we are our own worst enemies and than wonder why our kids are not following the teachings of the church because we support all those that are brainwashing and ERODING the Family, Church and Country.

  15. CLIMATEGATE – looks like the scientists, as with politicians, can be “bought off.” Honesty and integrity seems to be a thing of the past.

    Interesting, we are now 1-1/2 hours into Beck’s radio show this a.m. and nothing has been mentioned about this – with most everything including the healthcare bill hinging on this success of selling this scam WORLDWIDE, I’m surprised not to have heard a peep. IMO with this now exposed – AND confirmed by the University of East Anglia – all else that is based on this becomes a moot point. Add to this the fact Ron Paul’s agenda to end the Fed is moving forward, we could have one of the happiest of New Years ever.

    snipped from:
    http://www.infowars.com

    …scientists also “discussed ways of dodging Freedom of Information Act (FOIA) requests to release temperature data,” reports the Daily Mail.

    The emails show that scientists relied on cronyism and cosying up to FOIA officials to prevent them from being forced to release data.
    “When the FOI requests began here, the FOI person said we had to abide by the requests,’ the email says. “It took a couple of half-hour sessions to convince them otherwise.”
    “Once they became aware of the types of people we were dealing with, everyone at UEA became very supportive. I’ve got to know the FOI person quite well and the chief librarian – who deals
    with appeals.”

    It is important to stress that this compendium merely scratches the surface of the monumental levels of fraud that have been exposed as a result of the hacked emails.

    People will look back on this moment as the beginning of the end for global warming alarmism and the agenda to implement draconian measures of regulation and control along with the levy of a global carbon tax.

    Many more revelations will be forthcoming as a result of this leak, and the desperate effort on behalf of the establishment to whitewash the whole issue will only end up making the damage worse.

    If you’re so inclined to read this hacked communique, there is a link to thousands of emails and documents on infowars website.

  16. #

    bob strauss // November 23, 2009 at 10:15 am

    …….If it is possible to load votes into the machines prior to an election these machines should be banned from use. These machines make cheating too easy. We should demand an investigation and recount the votes from any election these machines were used in.

    We should do as they do in Iraq and have voters dip their finger into ink to show they have voted, to prevent the Chicago policy of voting early and voting often.
    ============================

    I’ll second that!

  17. How can those machine be infeceted with viruses?? Are they just plain simple computers? Are those computers connected to the Internet? Don’t they have virus protections?

    It doesn’t make sense. A computer virus attacks the operating system (Windows, Linux, Mac OSX, etc..) of a computer, not a machine with an unknown OS. It would be like me saying that your electronic calculator doesn’t work properly because it’s infected by a virus. Unless someone created a virus SPECIFICALY for that calculator OR that calculator uses an OS such as Windows, it’s impossible. The calculator would also need to have a way of reading external data (from the Internet or CD/DVD-Rom/Floppy drive). If those voting machines use an OS such as Windows, who would have that knowledge anyway?

  18. PRWH…..Peter F…..I was speaking of the Catholic politicians as the article was alluding to….you are right though…..over 50% of Catholics voted for the FRAUD…even after churches stressed to vote for the candidate who is closest in promoting the Churches teachings….that was not the FRAUD…..everyone should have been voting for Alan Keyes….he is the Conservative Catholic who is totally against abortion and it’s ruination of human society!!

  19. In my own church I had to speak very quietly to the secretary about Obamateur before the election because she said all the priests supported him and they would be upset and possibly fire her if she was overheard talking to me about the FRAUD.

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

    Peter…..I find this part hard to believe….the Dioceses in Las Vegas took a strong stand against the FRAUD and I know NO priests who voted for him!!

  20. jbjd-I sent the Attorney General another e-mail re: the Three Card Monte. I wonder if the various AG’s in other states are starting to talk amongst one another?
    Attorney General
    Bill McCollum, Attorney General Florida
    “The Attorney General is the constitutional, statewide elected official who serves as the attorney for the State of Florida. The Attorney General is responsible for the enforcement of state consumer protection and antitrust laws as well as civil prosecution of criminal racketeering. In the area of criminal law, the Attorney General represents the State when those convicted appeal their convictions, including capital murder cases.”

  21. Let’s put up 50,000 more billboards like that!

    Thanks, Jacqlyn. I woted in agreement with the bill board.

    The National Defamation League has denounced the bill board. This is just more attempts at thought control. The reality is defamation is only defamation if the statements are lies. When statements are facts –though it may be in poor taste–but is never defamation. To claim the truth is defamatory is a prime example of convolution of reality–which America has been fed a steady diet over the last few years.

    The harm that come from obfuscation, convolution, and camoflauge of the practice of “political correctness” is far more damaging than an ugly fact many wish were not so. Our Muslim government are masters at abuse and raping our beautiful English language so as to keep America in a constant state of ignorance and confusion!

  22. The biggest misnomer ever: “Conspiracy Theory”
    Ridiculous how they name everthing a conspiracy theory…if you ask any questions whatsoever to discern the truth!

  23. FLU/PLAGUE UPDATE – Des Moines, Iowa

    Autopsies IN IOWA reveal wet hemorrhagic lungs with a lot of blood in them JUST LIKE THE UKRAINE.

    snipped from:
    http://www.kcci.com/news/21670309/detail.html

  24. Zeeshopper.
    What you have stated is general in nature.
    Any software can be corrupted. It does not have to come from the internet.
    In this case it could be unintentional. (virus, bug in the general sense)
    By the way, I am an expert.

  25. CW:

    If it’s a problem in the software, they should use the word “bug” then, and not virus. A virus isn’t a bug. It can attack by exploiting a bug in the software, but it’s not unintentional. There’s not 10 ways how a software can be infected. If it’s a virus, someone must have injected it (through any way of input), and specificaly created it to attack the system, which also means that the person knows very well the machine and its flaws.

    BTW I’m an expert as well. 😉

  26. Zeeshopper.

    “How can those machine be infeceted with viruses?? Are they just plain simple computers? Are those computers connected to the Internet? Don’t they have virus protections?”

    The “virus” could be spread by a “Time bomb” and/or from the medium used to update or load them or typed directly onto.

    Over 30 years IT, beginning 1968, assembler through multiple high level languages PC, mid range , main frame platforms,
    including teaching college computer science 5 years.

  27. A virus is a problem with software.

  28. #

    usapatriots-shout.blogspot.com // November 23, 2009 at 11:02 am

    Let’s put up 50,000 more billboards like that!

    Thanks, Jacqlyn. I woted in agreement with the bill board.

    The National Defamation League has denounced the bill board. This is just more attempts at thought control. The reality is defamation is only defamation if the statements are lies. When statements are facts –though it may be in poor taste–but is never defamation. To claim the truth is defamatory is a prime example of convolution of reality–which America has been fed a steady diet over the last few years.

    The harm that come from obfuscation, convolution, and camoflauge of the practice of “political correctness” is far more damaging than an ugly fact many wish were not so. Our Muslim government are masters at abuse and raping our beautiful English language so as to keep America in a constant state of ignorance and confusion!
    *****************************************

    USA…you are OH so right….the truth hurts and that is what we need…..THE TRUTH about who the FRAUD is in our White House……I am tired of the LIBERAL lies…..this issue needs to be the #1 issue in America and it needs to be solved and it can be very easily…..NO MORE BILLS PASSED and SIGNED….they are wasting important tax dollars by debating a bill that the American people don’t want and even if it passes….is NULL and VOID because we have a USURPER in our house!!!!

  29. One more comment.
    The people reporting on the voting machine issues are not experts.
    Also, this is proprietary hardware and software. Just finding out what caused these
    problems could be difficult.

  30. Kim,

    You are sooooo right! This labeling of “conspiracy theory/theorists as well as “birthers” “truthers”, etc is intentional psychological warfare. I read about it in some of the official documents a few months back covering some covert program used by our government. Can’t be 100% positive at this moment, but I think it may have been Operation Mockingbird?

    When facts are presented that challenge the “theory” it is no longer just a theory. It becomes a “possibility.” That’s why it’s important to note that people who continue to refer to the 9/11 conspiracy as “theory” they are incorrect. These theories have long since rendered facts that now make them “possibilities.” Hence the call for an independent study.

  31. CW:

    You obviously have more experience in IT than I have, but maybe I’m not explaining myself well.

    “The “virus” could be spread by a “Time bomb” and/or from the medium used to update or load them or typed directly onto.”

    I agree with that, but in order to infect the system, the creator of the virus must know the system’s flaw.

    “A virus is a problem with software”.

    I don’t agree here. I’m going to copy/paste the Wikipedia’s definition which is exactly what I think a virus is:

    A computer virus is a computer program that can copy itself and infect a computer. The term “virus” is also commonly but erroneously used to refer to other types of malware, adware, and spyware programs that do not have the reproductive ability. A true virus can only spread from one computer to another (in some form of executable code) when its host is taken to the target computer; for instance because a user sent it over a network or the Internet, or carried it on a removable medium such as a floppy disk, CD, DVD, or USB drive. Viruses can increase their chances of spreading to other computers by infecting files on a network file system or a file system that is accessed by another computer.

    I think the point I want to make (and my opinion) is that the system is flawed and corrupted. I’m sure there’s a backdoor to their system, and they use the word “virus” as an excuse when something isn’t working properly.

    I’ve been coding for more than 20 years, and when something is wrong with my code, I never say “there’s a virus in my code”, but more “my code has some serious bugs”. If someone hacks into my code and add some malicous code, then I can say that a virus has infected my code.

  32. Here is my new song for O from the Who song:

    Kenya see the real me, Kenya? Kenya?

  33. By Daniel Kane

    The Sequoia AVC Advantage electronic voting machine that the computer scientists demonstrated could be turned against itself and used to steal votes.Computer scientists demonstrated that criminals could hack an electronic voting machine and steal votes using a malicious programming approach that had not been invented when the voting machine was designed. The team of scientists from University of California, San Diego, the University of Michigan, and Princeton University employed “return-oriented programming” to force a Sequoia AVC Advantage electronic voting machine to turn against itself and steal votes.

  34. ” malicious programming approach ”

    Trojan program …….

    A Trojan horse (sometimes shortened to trojan), is non-self-replicating malware that appears to perform a desirable function for the user but instead facilitates unauthorized access to the user’s computer system.

  35. Something else to write/call/fax your representatives about – The LIST IS LONG and getting longer isn’t it?!

    The criminal BEN BERNAKE – on Dec 3 confirmation of a second term begins.

    snipped from:
    http://institutionalfinancialderivatives.com/

    “Ben Bernanke has been scheduled for a confirmation hearing for a second four-year term as Federal Reserve chairman. The Senate Banking Committee will question him on Dec. 3.”

    “Thus I suspect fireworks during the confirmation hearing after which powerful special interests will unfortunately again guarantee Bernanke’s bogus reconfirmation regardless. This is wrong and NEEDS TO BE STOPPED! (emphasis mine).”

  36. To give you some background for understanding the Wheat Ridge sign, here’s some factual data (that also has a bit of fun wrapped in):

  37. More coverage on CLIMATE GATE on Alex Jones’s show today. (11:00 – 3:00 CST) on now.

    http://www.infowars.com

    or listen via cell phone
    512-646-5000

    This is so important because this is THE MAIN TAXING MECHANISM of global government.

  38. Pasadena Phil (who comments on Michelle Malkin frequently) refers to the Republicans as “Assistant Democrats” and states that once they re-take control in 2010, nothing will change because they don’t stand for anything, they just want to be in charge.
    That is my fear as well. We really need to vet our candidates and get conservatives in the running ASAP.

  39. Correction…. to my above post.

    Exploit code……..it’s used to take control of a program by a known bug in the code.

    What I don’t understand is why the software hasn’t been updated and the bug removed.

  40. Rush is talking about Climategate.

  41. China wants their money. Says they won’t accept “clunkers” we bought with their money as form of pay back. China President asks Mr. Obama to kiss him, if he’s going to “make sex with him” like he does with Mrs. Obama.

    http://www.nbc.com/saturday-night-live/video/clips/china-cold-open/1178451/

  42. http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,662822,00.html

    Obama can try to look “tougher”, but if he does he’ll look frayed at the ages at best and completely unravelled at worst. It’s not in him. But why don’t we just watch the circus unfold.

  43. The U.N. is still trying to perpetuate the Farce.
    http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,576368,00.html

  44. Ok. Rush , ,,,,,finally…………..

  45. The South,

    The SNL refers to Mrs. Obama, but I would say the posturing is a bit ambiguous wouldn’t you?

  46. Army DAV,

    Thanks for the heads up. Does he realize how huge this is?

    I’ll try to tune in – listening to Alex, too.

  47. Zeeshopper.
    You are quoting Wikipedia?

  48. Zeeshopper.
    I agree more with your clarification.

  49. TO:
    Jacqlyn Smith // November 23, 2009 at 10:40 am

    In my own church I had to speak very quietly to the secretary about Obamateur before the election because she said all the priests supported him and they would be upset and possibly fire her if she was overheard talking to me about the FRAUD.

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

    Peter…..I find this part hard to believe….the Dioceses in Las Vegas took a strong stand against the FRAUD and I know NO priests who voted for him!!
    ++++++++++++++++++

    This was in Cambridge MA and in my own family 99% are voting for Erosionist Lieberals because “they help the poor” and I tell them that they are making EVERYONE poor and want to keep it that way.

  50. “The Hippies Who “Certified” Obama

    FactCheck does say their, “representatives got a chance to spend some time with the ‘birth certificate,’ and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago.” In my mind, that clearly shows they were working with and for the Obama Campaign and that Obama and his people are involved in this lie.

    Lie? Hell, this is a conspiracy, the greatest fraud in American history and FactCheck.org boldly admits their part in it.”

    http://www.theobamafile.com/_eligibility/AnnenbergFactCheckers.htm

  51. Venice,

    I meant to tell you Tarpley, on Saturday, talked about “O’s” obvious physical appearance of ill health.

    Evidently Michelle has been after him to see a physician recently. He refuses to go to the doctor outside of his required yearly visit. Some have mentioned the possibility of lung cancer obviously related to his smoking. Insiders say the minute Michelle is away, “O” is puffing furiously on his cigs.

    I thought it interesting that Tarpley even mentioned it.

  52. Zeeshopper.
    You are obviously well informed.
    Here is a story.
    In the late eighties, one of my customers had a plant in Central America.
    Some of their hard drives got wiped out by what they referred to as a “Monkey Virus.”
    The term was in use long before most people were on the internet.
    I was not equating bug with virus.
    However it could have been a bug & they could have mistakenly referred to it as a virus.

  53. Venice,

    Ambiguous?

    I suppose 🙂

  54. Hi Danny,

    That was a great piece on ACORN-thanks for posting!

    Now, that ‘organization’ is receiving federal funds. Doesn’t that make them just another corrupt arm of this ‘government?’

  55. JustMe,

    The reason I keep referring to O’s health, is that I don’t think many appreciate how little he can handle “the heat”. He is psychologically and therefore constitutionally unable to accept rejection. This is a very bad time for him, and as human being I do feel sorry for him. I don’t think he ever imagined he would fail. In fact, he even said a few months ago “failure is not an option”. Since when has that been true for mere mortals. Failure is most often an option. That’s what we need to prepare for. Denying it is potentially self damaging. In this case, I fear it could be far worse.

  56. Sue K,

    Hello!

    Wondering if you saw my post about the autopsies in Des Moines, Iowa? Other thread, I believe. They are the same hemorrhagic, wet lungs as in the Ukraine.

    Things that make you go hmmmmmmmm.

  57. JustMe

    Yes, he related it to all the socialists programs , cap& tax , health care, .

    Savage will run with it for sure.

  58. Palin will have zero shot at winning if the electronic voting machine fiasco isnt resolved. The scary thing is the dnc will claim they work just fine even though there lying through their teeth. Folks we are in for a dogfight. I was getting a oil change and some guy was talking to the owners and was talking about obama not being a citizen and he doesnt hardly anyone who voted for him. This is massachusetts were talking about. Something fishy happen along the way.

  59. Venice,

    I have often thought the same thing – that he felt invincible and has severely underestimated the “powers that be” feeling he had surrounded himself with “seasoned” people on The Hill. Maybe that’s why we’ve seen Clinton – who did manage to dodge them – and Carter come to his aid. They “feel” for him.

    I would go out on a limb and say the pressure he must be getting from his wife has to be HUGE. She, most likely, is pushing him to push his agenda. So, on many fronts including the home front, he’s failing. That would seem difficult even for the most calloused narcissus to come to handle.

  60. Army Dav –

    SO COOL!!!!!

    Now WE have to run with it, too, before the spin is in.

    I’ll definitely have Savage on this evening.

  61. http://www.gallup.com/poll/113980/Gallup-Daily-Obama-Job-Approval.aspx

    Gallup at 49% approval. If this continues for a day or two more, it will establish a trend.

  62. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/columnists/guest_contributors/article6927598.ece

    Some are already forecasting Copenhagen will fail. That would be a monumental success for the world.

  63. Rense.com has a good article about an
    Ex-British Policman investigating
    the Obama birth certificiate issue.

    His name is Neil Sankey and he may have
    access to more date, due to his police
    connections in Europe.

    Let’s keep an eye on Neil, who is now based
    in California.

  64. What is really nec’y now is to put global warming chants aside, and perhaps deal with real issues of pollution, like our rivers, lakes and air. And keep it separate from this CO2 nonsense.

  65. CW:

    Sorry I had to get the definition from Wikipedia, even though we know that it’s most of the time innacurate, but I think that it defined perfectly the definition of virus.

    I agree with you, it could have been mistaken with a bug. It’s just that I wouldn’t believe it if the people who made the voting machine would come with an excuse such as it’s a “virus” problem. They might fool the people who have no IT knowledge though, and that’s a big part of the point I wanted to make. If they come with that excuse, then there should be an investigation on how a virus could have been created on a system that is proprietary and known only from the manufacturer.

    I also doubt an individual would be allowed by the manufacturer to buy just one voting machine, do some reverse-engineering, and then introduce the virus by who knows input. So it must be someone who works at that company who is the hacker, and/or like I said, they created a backdoor only know by them, which allow anybody to steal votes.

  66. In my own church I had to speak very quietly to the secretary about Obamateur before the election because she said all the priests supported him and they would be upset and possibly fire her if she was overheard talking to me about the FRAUD.

    ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((

    Peter…..I find this part hard to believe….the Dioceses in Las Vegas took a strong stand against the FRAUD and I know NO priests who voted for him!!
    ++++++++++++++++++

    This was in Cambridge MA and in my own family 99% are voting for Erosionist Lieberals because “they help the poor” and I tell them that they are making EVERYONE poor and want to keep it that way.

    ******************************************

    Peter….Don’t get me wrong….I still have family as well that are supporting this immoral and corrupt so called government…..it sickens me daily to think about all the Catholics who supported this FRAUD!!!

  67. Danny // November 23, 2009 at 12:41 pm

    BREAKING: San Diego ACORN Document Dump Scandal

    ******************************************

    Danny this needs to go viral!!!!!

  68. Venice-you’re going to love this guy.
    http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=3298421n

  69. I just saw this on Fox News Lou Dobbs is thinking about running for President. Go Lou!

  70. Has the Government sprayed us with Smart Dust?

    Are we already being tracked and censored?

    Watch this video to “the very end”

  71. Venice,

    So right. We need to focus on cleaning up the water outside of this Co2 garbage.

    I’m learning much from Dr. Winn Parker, who has devoted much time to this serious issue. It’s an issue he’s passionate about. He has written numerous papers and proposed amendments that would allow US to vote on our food and drinking water and not have it be an edict to us.

    He gave kudos to the EPA’s Lisa Johnson, but looks like her honest efforts to do the right thing are being usurped.

    Evidently agriculture has mandates to use “recycled” water – part of the scam to SAVE THE EARTH. He said as a result, our food is already contaminated with bacteria when we purchase it. Evident by the fact it doesn’t last long in our refrigerators. I’m still learning from him on this subject. I had no idea. All part of Agenda 21/Club of Rome crap.

    Then there’s also the issue of sterilants present in our drinking water – among other toxins. This was part of Czar Holdren plan years put in action years ago – Eugenics/population control.

    I digress….

  72. Michelle,

    Thank you. The only way is to reduce, reuse and recycle, in diminishing order of importance.
    Reduce is the big one. We can live on one 1/10th of what most middle class families have.
    We can reuse a ton more and if we’ve done 1 and 2, there should be little to recycle.

  73. Jacqlyn Smith et al; I want to take a moment to thank AL gore for inventing the internet. If not we would never have this information and the technology to shine light on and spread the truth…..

  74. FACEBOOK page just started to “ARREST AL GORE ALREADY!”

    He’ll be in Toronto next day or so….should be interesting to see what happens with this recent reveal of their lies.

    LOVE IT!

  75. Greg Goss,

    I know what you’re saying, but I thought the Internet was a product of The Pentagon, not Al Gore? Anyone know?

  76. Greg Goss –

    here you go –

    snipped from:
    http://www.slate.com/id/1003154/

    The Internet was in fact invented by a Pentagon organization called the Advanced Research Projects Agency (ARPA), which spent taxpayer dollars to develop a system (initially called ARPAnet, later called the Internet) that connected big research computers around the country. It is commonly believed (especially inside the Pentagon) that the chief purpose of ARPAnet was to secure the nuclear defense network by allowing information to travel easily by multiple routes from computer to computer.

  77. Blood Money Trailer

    Sign up to show your support at http://www.bloodmoneyfilm.com

  78. Headline right now on Drudge is so very telling

    “Hollywood invited to first state dinner”

    Star powers unite.

  79. I just had a moment of cynical laughter. I can’t believe how dumb we are as a collective nation.

    Here you have a man Dr. Ron Paul, who’s been screaming from the roof tops for 30 years, that if you vote for me, I will ….

    1 … End the Federal Reserve and the IRS

    2 … I will completely end the income tax

    3 … I will end the CIA and the Patriot Act

    And we still won’t elect this man ….. lol

    Unfrickingbelievable!

    We deserve what we get.

  80. Great pictures:

    http://hotairpundit.blogspot.com/2009/11/billy-graham-god-is-using-sarah-palin.html

    Monday, November 23, 2009
    Billy Graham: God Is Using Sarah Palin To Wake Up America

  81. The South,

    I hear you. He is a rare bird. But, we never had a chance to elect the man – Ron Paul. The media made sure we couldn’t. Then sent their goons after him – threatening to take him out JFK style.

    He’s a pure Constitutionalist.

  82. JustMe,

    Ron Paul is the “only” Congressman who understands the Federal Reserve system, and their henchman the IRS.

    None of them had any idea what the Fed was until we started putting heat on them for an audit, and they read his book END THE FED.

    I hope the power of the internet overcomes the lame stream media in 2010 and 2012 and we get this man elected.

    God Help Us.

  83. #

    venice // November 23, 2009 at 12:56 pm

    JustMe,

    The reason I keep referring to O’s health, is that I don’t think many appreciate how little he can handle “the heat”. He is psychologically and therefore constitutionally unable to accept rejection. This is a very bad time for him, and as human being I do feel sorry for him. I don’t think he ever imagined he would fail. In fact, he even said a few months ago “failure is not an option”. Since when has that been true for mere mortals. Failure is most often an option. That’s what we need to prepare for. Denying it is potentially self damaging. In this case, I fear it could be far worse.
    *******************************************

    Venice…you are so totally on target….that is why the Liberals need this piece of garbage passed as soon as possible…..it would be the end of his career!!!

  84. #

    Greg Goss // November 23, 2009 at 1:49 pm

    Jacqlyn Smith et al; I want to take a moment to thank AL gore for inventing the internet. If not we would never have this information and the technology to shine light on and spread the truth…..
    *******************************************

    Amen GREG….I don’t think Gore gets it though that people are actually laughing AT him and not with him!!! LOL:) 🙂 🙂

  85. LM- re: Blood Money trailer, all of my girlfriends know that I am pro-life (too much crib death among friends and family) some are pro-abortion. I disagree, some have told me that they have had an abortion. I cannot judge them, one of my sisters girlfriends counsels women who have had an abortion (s) who lost their minds, for them it seems like the hardest part is forgiving themselves. Blood Money an apt title, for Planned Parenthood it was all about the money, hence low dose birth-control pills, to guarantee a pregnancy for them to insure future profits. So sick-I also tell the young and vulnerable, some social diseases are not curable think about what you’re doing, and it is not just the young ladies.
    http://www.marypages.com/AbortionNo.htm
    “No matter how deep the stain of your sins, I can remove it. I can make you as clean as freshly fallen snow. Even if you are stained as red as crimson, I can make you as white as wool.’’ (Isaiah 1:18 NLT)

  86. JustMe // November 23, 2009 at 2:03 pm

    Hi JustMe,

    Yeah, dinner with the Celebrity in Chief. Makes you feel all warm and fuzzy, doesn’t it?

    (Be back later).

  87. Michelle, you said you couldn’t judge those who had abortions. Did your feelings about them change?
    No matter how hard I try, when I find out someone has had an abortion my feelings for them change. It’s visceral, emotional, not logical, and I cannot think my way out of looking at them as less than I thought they were before I knew.

  88. Fernley Girl,

    Do you feel the same way if a woman had been raped? I’m just curious.

  89. Patriot Dreamer

    “Mom: Son in coma heard everything for 23 years”

    http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9C5DTGO3&show_article=1

    Diagnosis was wrong: paralyzed – not in a coma.

  90. Patriot Dreamer

    new Rasmussen polls on ObamaCare:

    56% now oppose
    38% in favor

    43% strongly oppose
    21% strongly favor

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/healthcare/september_2009/health_care_reform

  91. Venice,
    A woman does NOT choose to be raped. A woman CHOOSES to have an abortion.

    Don’t try to compare criminal acts to deciding to terminate a pregnancy.

    I said it was a visceral reaction. And then asked Michelle if she had the same reaction.

  92. PD,

    That’s a tragic case, bc like so many things it’s never yes/no, black/white. There are many levels of consciousness, the deepest corresponding to coma.

  93. I don’t know is this is happening accidentally/on purpose/or it just fell into Andrew Breitbarts lap, but the ACORN CORRUPTION is so huge you would have to be unconscious to miss it. This will lead to the White House, I knew in the beginning this Obama/Corruption/Lying White House would be bigger than Watergate and it is, with more revelations to go. Never knew it was so hard to get government officials to do their jobs, they need a major reduction in pay.
    ACORN Scandal, Part 2: The Evidentiary Phase
    http://biggovernment.com/category/acorn/
    Monday, November 23, 2009 2:24:05 PM · by BAW · 6 replies · 292+ views
    BigGovernment.com ^ | Nov 23, 2009 | Andrew Breibart
    The last two months of the growing ACORN scandal has focused on the damning videos shot by James O’Keefe and Hannah Giles. In seven out of eight offices, ACORN employees attempted to aid and abet O’Keefe and Giles’ illicit “scheme” to establish a brothel for underage illegal-immigrant prostitutes from Central America. . That phase has been tabled for a future date, as I forthrightly stated last Thursday evening to Attorney General Eric Holder on FOX NEWS’ Hannity show. The next phase will be the evidentiary phase. Starting with, but not limited to an extraordinary document dump at the San Diego…
    http://michellemalkin.com/2008/06/25/the-acorn-obama-knows/
    Don’t bother asking Barack Obama. He cut his ideological teeth working with ACORN as a “community organizer” and legal representative. Naturally, ACORN’s political action committee has warmly endorsed his presidential candidacy. According to ACORN, Obama trained its Chicago members in leadership seminars; in turn, ACORN volunteers worked on his campaigns. Obama also sat on the boards of the Woods Fund and Joyce Foundation, both of which poured money into ACORN’s coffers. ACORN head Maude Hurd gushes that Obama is the candidate who “best understands and can affect change on the issues ACORN cares about” — like ensuring their massive pipeline to your hard-earned money.
    The group’s vandalism on electoral integrity is systemic
    Where does the candidate of Hope and Change — the candidate of Reform and New Politics — stand on the issue? Barack Obama, ACORN’s senator, is for more of the same old, same old subsidizing of far-left politics in the name of fighting for the poor while enriching ideological cronies. It’s the Chicago way.
    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/06/27/grim_proving_ground_for_obamas_housing_policy/
    What Obama and Jarrett did to these people on the South Side of Chicago is inhumane while stealing the taxpayers money. Talk about people who have standing, used to scam the government out of money. They are people not commodities.

  94. Fernely Girl,

    I’m not judging, I really am just curious. I’m not comparing anything. I just wonder what emtional state leads a woman to have an abortion. The choosing only follows what the woman feels. That’s really the basis of my question.

  95. Patriot Dreamer

    venice // November 23, 2009 at 3:12 pm

    Definitely.

  96. PD,

    Sorry, are your responding to my post to you, or to my last one?

  97. Venice,
    Does the reason for the decision to abort make the baby less dead?

    BTW, I am an agnostic.

  98. Sorry again, you posted 3:12.

  99. Fernley Girl, something very strange happened to me, we had a new girl at work here in Florida who also had come from Illinois. It just so happened that I knew of the family of the guy she had been engaged to. They had broken up, and she married a different person, and thru much medical intervention she finally got pregnant. She had some bad days at work, one day she told me about the abortion she had which caused the break-up with first fiancee. This is the part that really was hard to take. She was telling me with her mouth that the abortion was the right thing to do, as tears were coming out of her eyes and would not stop. I felt like I was watching a person being torn in half, mentally, spiritually, emotionally. I think it was a sorrow that she will bear for the rest of her life, at the time I knew her she was definitely unstable, to the point of a possible nervous break-down. She had a great husband thank goodness, and loved her little son, but the abortion done many years previously weighed very heavily on her. I really hope that she received the help she needed. How could I judge someone suffering so badly?

  100. Patriot Dreamer

    venice, it was a tragic case. I agree.

  101. Fernely Girl,

    No it doesn’t. But it does potentially set the stage for the mother’s relationship to her child and that of course is a defining period in an infant’s life. She could of course choose to give up for adoption, but that’s another discussion.

  102. Patriot Dreamer

    “University of Minnesota demanding political allegiance for educators?”

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/23/university-of-minnesota-demanding-political-allegiance-for-educators/

  103. venice-Fernley Girl-on the other hand, we knew lots of couples who adopted children. I cannot tell you what joy they brought to those couples who thought that they would never have children. Since most were older (not teen-agers) they were established with some pretty healthy bucks, a few of the couples were millionaires, talk about a much wanted child falling into “it”.
    So many times I wish the natural mother could see what her baby fell into, not from the material view but from the great love that these parents had so stored up it almost exploded. One couple was so cute-they were afraid to touch the baby, my mother and I had to show them how. I think they thought if they touched the baby it would break.

  104. Patriot Dreamer

    “Interview: Sen. James Inhofe will call for hearings into IPCC, UN, East Anglia CRU e-mails”

    http://hotair.com/archives/2009/11/23/audio-inhofe-will-call-for-hearings-into-ipcc-un-east-anglia-cru-e-mails/

  105. Patriot Dreamer,

    So it’s Inhofe that blazes the trail, hey?

    One thing is certain, we need to get the hello out of the U.N. It is a the brain child of private wealth. Same names that always pop up – one being the evil Rockefellers.

  106. Michelle,

    I guess that’s really what I’m addressing. It is critical for a child to have a “parent” who wants them. It will define the quality of their life for a very long time, if not indefinitely. A woman who conceives under conditions of rape, represent the extremity of woman who has had no say. If she is able to process that, she could be happy with the arrival of this little one. But what if not and chooses to keep her baby?

    These are very difficult circumstances that raise fundamental issues about how we perceive life but none of us are “above the pay grade”. It behooves everyone to ultimately decide.

  107. CLIMATE GATE REPORT – part 1 of 2

  108. CLIMATE GATE REPORT – part 2 of 2

  109. Venice,

    I realize you are not discussing the issue of abortion with me, but I have been greatly disturbed ever since the woman was found in California recently having been kidnapped and kept hidden for years in a shack in the back yard. She bore children of the man that repeatedly raped her and held her captive. The children were living inside the house, while the mother was held under horrid conditions. I have tried to put myself in her place since hearing that story and can’t imagine. Everytime you would look at those children, no matter how precious, you are reminded of your ordeal. As I said, I can’t even imagine. May I ask what are your thoughts on this issue?

  110. Russia Today covers the End The Fed rally this past weekend. Where was our media?

  111. Michelle,
    I never asked if you judged……..I asked if the knowledge changed your feelings (emotions). Haven’t you ever known a person, then found out something about them that made you have an emotional reaction? Favorable, or unfavorable, before you had a chance to think it through? THAT is what I asked. Judging takes time. All I wanted to know was if you have an instant emotional response.

  112. Patriot Dreamer

    “‘September 11 Revisited’
    Todd Beamer’s father outraged at 9/11 trial decision”

    http://video.foxnews.com/11863347/september-11-revisited

  113. JustMe,

    I”m happy to discuss this with you, as with anybody on the blog.

    This was a heinous crime of the worst imaginable. These are marginally feral children. As one would expect the children’s orientation to the world is alien to anyone addressing them.

    The greatest psychological insults happen in the first few months of life, not the first few years. It has lasting impact. To draw an analogy, albeit a weak one, the tragedy of women who are not given folic acid and have children with varying degrees of spina bifida, is a tragic one indeed. But it does raise the issue of the “window of opportunity” where growth and development physiologically is concerned. And so it is with one’s social development, though thankfully human beings have a greater capacity to adapt to early losses psychologically and can mend, unlike with spina bifida. But there is a limit if you will. Severe neglect, abuse and abandonment are difficult to reverse.

    These children most likely will be affected for the rest of their lives. Rehabilitation will be long, and painful. But as I said human beings are resilient, so one could be surprised. It’s just that in order for that to happen they would have to beat the odds.

    Don’t know if that answers your questions.

  114. Pingback: Doug Hoffman race, Sequoia voting machine, Election fraud?, NY District 23, Beta test, Pilot program, Leftists fraud, Princeton University study, Voting machine fraud « Citizen Wells

  115. JustMe,

    Just to clarify. I wouldn’t assume that these children’s prospects were largely determined by the mother being raped. We have years of isolation and neglect and that has to be considered as well.

  116. Venice,

    it does, and very well I may add.

    My mind went straight to this case when the question/issue of “choice” came up. Obviously here a woman that didn’t have a choice to terminate her pregnancy. I’m sure she loves her children dearly. But these children are the product of a horrific situation that I think not many of us can imagine going through.

    Note: I am not condoning nor condemning this issue, it is not my place to. I always say, walk a mile in my shoes.

  117. correction to above post, I should have said, “many of us can NOT imagine going through.

  118. venice // November 23, 2009 at 4:11 pm

    Of course. I realize that.

  119. Maddie-I just remembered what I wanted to tell you re: parents
    I don’t know where you live/zoning issues etc. These are small (on purpose) they would have their own house, but on your property near-by. Close but independent. It also depend on family circumstances, financial aspects etc., but just another option.
    http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=pg&p=2006_landing/Katrina_Cottage/KC_544.html
    http://www.vgc.com.au/

  120. JustMe,

    Sorry I just wanted to make clear I wasn’t extending the earlier discussion, since it seems this emanated from that.

  121. ************** NEW POST *************

  122. Fernley Girl-many of my jobs, involved meeting many people a/k/a customers. I think I learned long ago not to make snap judgements of any kind. If someone told me something horrible, I think maybe I just can’t handle it and pass it over directly to God.

  123. Venice,

    got it.

    The reason I asked you for your opinion was completely personal – to help me settle something I’ve been wrestling with in my own mind about the situation with the woman in California. It has haunted me ever since the news broke.

    It reminded me of the situation in Austria – the man who kept his own daughter captive in the dungeon of the apartment building he and his wife lived in, and impregnated her multiple times.

    I could barely watch the news on either of these stories when they were reported.

    I do know we are resilient beings – but the mental/emotional damage done seems to only continue when you are face to face daily with your children from those situations. I don’t know if I’m making myself clear or not…

  124. I give up. To me judging is different from emotion. You apparently think not.

  125. JustMe,

    Perfectly clear. But I think there’s something in both of these horrific situations that may not be obvious. Both these women, who were largely children at the time of captivity, have shown an inclination to acquiesce to their oppressor. One would need to know the nature of the relationship between the victim and the oppressor bc another person might have found ways to free themselves.

    The woman in California lived outside. It’s difficult of course to speculate, but could she not have signalled to a neighbor her circumstances? A passerby, somebody? You see it is complicated, so what you surmise may have been an unbearable unending pain, may not have been for them.

  126. Fernley Girl,

    I know you’re not addressing this to me, but if I may I will respond.

    Judging is different from emotion. Our emotions are much more primitive. Judgement requires something different.

    Emotion is immediate, for lack of a better word, instinctual. Judgement requires experience, knowledge, rational processes. But the most important point here is that our emotional world can guide our judgement and I think that may be where the confusion exists. Yes they are separate. Emotions are enduring, judgements can be altered through different channels.

  127. Venice,

    thank you. Yes, I see that it is complicated. I was wondering exactly that about the woman in California…she was in a completely separate quarters. She, as you say, didn’t signal.

    Again, thank you for helping me come to terms with this.

  128. Venice,
    I was the one making the differentiation between the two. I was asking Michelle, and she refused to tell me what her emotional response was, only that she refused to judge.

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