Obama, Grand jury presentment, Update, July 7, 2009, Federal Judge Denies Citizen Grand Jury Presentment Filing

From Phil at the Right Side of Life:

“In a recent article, I reported that a number of concerned citizens had visited the USDC for DC and submitted a citizen grand jury presentment to Chief Justice Royce Lamberth in hopes that he would issue a response to the paperwork. His order was made July 2, 2009 (h/t TheJAGHunter):”

“Quotes relevant to the citizen grand jury movement, going forward, include the following:

…And although presentments are constitutionally permitted, there is no authority under the Rules of Criminal Procedure or in the statutes of the United States for this Court to accept one. …

Furthermore, grand juries are convened by the court for the district in which they sit. … Grand jurors are also to be selected at random from a fair cross section of the district in which they are convened. … The individuals who have made this presentment were not convened by this Court to sit as a grand jury nor have they been selected at random from a fair cross section of this district. Any self-styled indictment or presentment issued by such a group has no force under the Constitution or laws of the United States. …

Further, though the papers presented to the Clerk of Court shall not be filed, they shall be assigned a miscellaneous number along with this Order for the court’s record.”

Read more:

http://www.therightsideoflife.com/?p=6588

 

316 responses to “Obama, Grand jury presentment, Update, July 7, 2009, Federal Judge Denies Citizen Grand Jury Presentment Filing

  1. Jacqlyn Smith

    This is BS if this post is true!!!

  2. So, we’re supposed to wait for the diligent (sarcasm here) courts to convene and choose members from that district to create a grand jury of each district??

    I was confused before, now I’m just lost!!

  3. Sorry to tell you I told you so.

    We neeed to be alot smarter. We need to learn from the ObAMORONS or at least from Poker Players.

    What happened here was TWO things:

    ObaMORONS heard about this and QUICKLY put PRESSURE on the Court to find a way to FLush IT.

    We didin’t go to a “friendly” court like teh ObaMORONS would do.

    Next time keep it hush hush until we haev SOMETHING that can’t be flushed under pressure.

    We are fighting an ORGANIZED MOB can’t reveal your hand prematurely. We have to use tactics appropriate like someone recently said:

    “Yes, my friends, it’s once again time to quote Sean Connery’s famous speech from The Untouchables, written by David Mamet — the lecture the veteran Chicago cop gives a wet-behind-the-ears Eliot Ness (Kevin Costner, back when he was a movie star) while they sit in a church pew. “You want to get Capone? Here’s how you get him: he pulls a knife, you pull a gun, he sends one of yours to the hospital, you send one of his to the morgue. That’s the Chicago way!” If you just think of us — liberal Democrats — as Capone you’ll begin to understand what we’re up to. And we just put one of yours in the morgue.”

    This is from a good article titled “I Still Hate You Sarah Palin”

    http://article.nationalreview.com/print/?q=NDE3MmE5MDVmMGM1YjQ2NmVhMjJkN2I2ZTcxMzhlNjU=

    Lets Learn going Forward:
    Pick the right Court, Locale & Judge and keep it HUSHED until it can’t be ObamaFLUSHED.

  4. I think this was quashed before Chalice’s article ever hit the ‘net. Lamberth set us up.

  5. Jacqlyn Smith

    I received the following from my sister today…has anyone seen this in the news????

    *********************************************************

    Begin forwarded message:

    BOMBSHELL…Supreme Court now has Obama Citizenship

    AP- WASHINGTON D.C. – In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s
    qualifications for the presidenc y, the group Americans for Freedom of
    Information has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts
    from Occidental College Released today, the transcript indicates that
    Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a
    foreign student from Indonesia as an undergraduate at the school.
    The transcript was released by Occidental College in compliance with a
    court order in a suit brought by the group in the Superior Court of
    California . The transcript shows that Obama (Soetoro) applied for
    financial aid and was awarded a fellowship for foreign students from the
    Fulbright Foundation Scholarship program. To qualify, for
    the scholarship, a student must claim foreign citizenship. This
    document would seem to provide the smoking gun that many of Obama’s
    detractors have been seeking.

    Along with the evidence that he was first born in Kenya and there is
    no record of=2 0him ever applying for US citizenship, this is
    looking pretty grim. The news has created a firestorm at the White
    House as the release casts increasing doubt about Obama’s legitimacy and
    qualification to serve as president. When reached for comment in London,
    where he has been in meetings with British Prime Minister Gordon Brown,
    Obama smiled but refused comment on the issue.

    Britain ‘s Daily Mail a lso carried the story in a front-page article titled, Obama
    Eligibility Questioned leading some to speculate that the story may
    overshadow economic issues on Obama’s first official visit to the U.K.

    In a related matter, under growing pressure from several groups,
    Justice Antonin Scalia announced that the Supreme Court agreed
    on Tuesday to hear arguments concerning Obama’s legal eligibility to
    serve as President in a case brought by Leo Donofrio of New Jersey .
    This lawsuit claims Obama’s dual citizenship disqualified him from
    serving as president. Donofrio’s case is just one of 18 suits brought by
    citizens demanding proof of Obama’s citizenship or qualification to
    serve as president.

    Gary Kreep of the United States Justice Foundation has released
    the results of their investigation of Obama’s campaign spending.
    This study estimates that Obama has spent upwards of $950,000
    in campaign funds in the past year with eleven law firms in 12 states
    for legal resources to block disclosure of any of his personal
    records. Mr. Kreep indicated that the investigation is still ongoing
    but that the final report will be provided to the U.S. Attorney General,
    Eric Holder. Mr. Holder has refused to comment on the matter.

    LET OTHER Americans KNOW THIS NEWS THAT THE MEDIA WON’T EMBRACE!

  6. PRWH-Peter F. I agree you can’t show your hand to these people.

  7. Jaclynn Smith,

    That seems familiar it sounds alot like a story that came out as an April Fools story. Even though there seems to be more ot it now.

  8. Jacqlyn Smith // July 7, 2009 at 6:24 pm

    Hi Jacqlyn,

    PRWH Peter is correct-this was an April Fool’s joke that was circulating. Americans for Freedom of Information doesn’t exist.

    Nice thought, but not true.

    http://amfoi.wordpress.com/

  9. SueK,

    Someone is really working hard at that April Fool’s joke. It’s been circulating for a while. One would think the Obots would have given up on this “lost cause” we are all pursuing long ago.

    Instead they continue to circulate. Take a look at the calendar folks. Almost 7 months and the Patriots are more persistant than ever.

  10. Bill Gives Attorney General Power To Designate Gun Owners, Tax Protesters As Terrorists

    http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=14252

  11. Michael Dixon

    Here’s what I don’t understand about the lawsuits challenging Obama’s eligibility. The burden of proof is on the plaintiffs, and they have no proof that Obama has broken a law for which he can be prosecuted. They have allegations, but no proof. They don’t even have circumstantial evidence, much less forensic evidence, against Obama. Eventually they may find some, but right now they don’t have it.

    Possibly, this is why no court will hear any of the cases. The plaintiffs have no case. They can’t force him to prove he is a “natural born citizen;” they must prove he isn’t. Maybe this is why the major radio talk show hosts as well as the MSM won’t take this issue seriously. Their legal advisers may have cautioned them to leave it alone because it’s not going anywhere, and they will look like fools if they make a big deal of it.

    Just my guess.

  12. JeffM // July 7, 2009 at 7:28 pm

    Hi Jeff,

    You’re right. I don’t know how this is timed to work but this story pops up sporadically; if the Obots are controlling the distribution of it, I think they’re doing it just to get our goat. This seems to be a well orchestrated ‘press release’ that happens too frequently.

    We’re a lot tougher than they thought…

    Off topic here, but something we’d kicked around regarding H1N1 a while ago. I’ve done more research and talked to more scientists about this and there is now agreement that this bug was engineered. When it first hit, many felt that anything in nature was possible but as this drags on, it seems extremely unlikely.

    Will be watching the fall season to see if the ‘prediction’ of H1N1 + H5N1 will come to fruition….just as they said it would.

  13. Im in Donofrio’s corner with regard to the citizens grand jury’s approach,
    however, recently i believe it was Justice Roberts, that was recommending a pay increase for the judiciary, what a total joke !

    How about a 50 percent pay cut for the judiciary, and the congress and senate, while they dilute the dollar, and while they toss the chicken bones, and wait for them to land, and try to read which other way is best to proceed on the economy.

    Maybe B.O. will lead by example and cut his 300,000-400,000 paycheck in half, right B.O. ? Oh no, he can’t, he’s in Russia giving away our Nuclear Deterrent while the nation back home remembers independence day. How patriotic B.O.

    How much stimulus funding went towards Civil Defense, like securing our food and water supply lines, protecting our power grid from a rogue EMP attack on us, or doing something about the fact, that post 9/11, less than 10 percent of our shipping containers are being adequately checked ?

    Our nation and it’s citizens need to be aware that our government and the current administration, is not doing enough to preemptively protect and guard us, against a massive asymmetrical attack against our vital infrastructure.

    Paul Williams’s book: Al Qaeda Connection, is a real eye opener. He was an F.B.I. investigative reporter, and quotes nothing but proven information, and frequently quotes Michael Schuerer, who was former C.I.A in charge of Bin Laden.

    Captured laptop computers and doc’s from Al Qaeda operatives, reveal the sinister plot to hit seven U.S. cities simultaneusly with tactical nukes.

    All info is dated and archived when it was revealed to the public, sadly the public is unaware.

    It is known that Al Qaeda has already purchased twenty tactical nuke devises from the Chechen and Albanian Mafias. He may have many more.

    Our radiation detection equipement is not yet fully capable, and nukes can be encased in steel, and it will not emit a radiation signature.

    The seven U.S. cities were i believe, New York, Boston Mass, Washington D.C., Miami Fla, Chicago, Ill, Housten Tex, Los Angeles Calif.

    Sounds like smoke, i know, until you read the book and see the info with all the corresponding dates, and sources of the info !

  14. Michael Dixon,

    There are 2 reasons why cases haven’t been heard or have been dismissed:

    1. The burden of proof is on the plaintiff in civil cases filed as a writ of mandamus, which is the incorrect filing to use in cases of usurpation anyway

    2. The burden of proof is on the defendent in civil cases of quo warranto, but the issue of standing has been a challenge in these cases

    So, you are partially correct. Cases have been dismissed but not based on burden of proof. They have been dismissed based on lack of standing.

    However, that stumbling block will soon be removed. All it takes is one active duty or reserve soon to be called upon for military service to file a quo warranto suit against Soetoro and it’s over. That wheel is revolving right now. It’s really only a matter of time.

    To recap, in the case of many quo warranto suits in the history of the U.S., one does not have to be a criminal or commit a crime to have the complaint heard and decided in the court of law. When this happens the usurpation is corrected either by vacaction of the position, re-election, or placement of the correct individual into that position of public trust or municipality.

  15. SueK,

    You’re right. I’ve been tracing this virus since before it was mainstream. It’s definitely engineered based on all of the research I’ve done.

    It ranks up there with the A bomb and killer bees. Man made with the “best” intentions…

  16. Hi Richard,

    Scary stuff, if true. I’ll pick up a copy of Williams’ book-sounds like a good read.

    This may sound out of whack, but a tactical nuclear strike (or seven) would certainly put a crimp or two in Soetoro’s warm and fuzzy ‘foreign policy’ agenda, wouldn’t it?!

  17. Portugese Revolutionary,

    Its been evident for at least a year that an “organized mob” has been at play. Thanks for highlighting this critical point. The combination of “organized” and “mob” is indeed a lethal one and only an iron fisted resistance that is equally organized will succeed.

  18. Obanana Approval TUMBLES in OHIO:

    http://www.columbusdispatch.com/live/content/local_news/stories/2009/07/07/0707newpoll.html?sid=101

    Poll: Obama’s approval rating in Ohio tumbles

    Tuesday, July 7, 2009 7:51 AM
    By Joe Hallett
    THE COLUMBUS DISPATCH

    “Obama’s approval rating is in a free-fall in Ohio, considered by many political observers to be the most important swing state in a presidential election. A new survey by the Quinnipiac University Polling Institute shows that only 49 percent of the state’s voters approve of the way Obama is handling his job, 13 points lower than the 62 percent who gave Obama a thumbs up in a May 6 Quinnipiac poll of Ohioans.”

  19. JeffM // July 7, 2009 at 9:31 pm

    Jeff, you were on this case long before most of us were!

    I’m not a Biologist (Molecular or otherwise) but do work with ‘subject matter experts’ who were scratching their heads over this one. Since then, I’ve expanded my contacts and was stunned to learn what I did about this virus. Don’t know if there’s any truth to the rumor that a woman who died of Spanish flu was unearthed so that a sample of that virus could be taken for a thumbprint to create H1N1. Is Dr. Frankenstein in the house?

    It seems that everything lately is created with the ‘best intentions;’ only what ‘they’ feel we should experience.

  20. Not surprising in Ohio. It’s the same across the country. The party’s over.

    Let’s get the word out:

    WHERE’S MY HANDOUT???

    DON’T TREAD ON ME!!!!

  21. SueK,

    Who knows whats truly ordained/or allowed to happen to this country, but the source information revealed is cataloged in the back of the book with names, and dates etc. etc.

    Im not pushing fear, this Nation can fortify it’s defenses and critical vitals, and defeat them.

    A powerful Civil Defense with no gaping holes is possible, and should be the top priority, creating massive jobs for all of us.

  22. smrstrauss

    Re: “AP- WASHINGTON D.C. – In a move certain to fuel the debate over Obama’s
    qualifications for the presidenc y, the group Americans for Freedom of
    Information has Released copies of President Obama’s college transcripts
    from Occidental College Released today, the transcript indicates that
    Obama, under the name Barry Soetoro, received financial aid as a
    foreign student from Indonesia”

    That was a made-up story. The AP never wrote it. Occidental never released any records.

  23. smrstrauss

    Re: “So, we’re supposed to wait for the diligent (sarcasm here) courts to convene and choose members from that district to create a grand jury of each district??”

    So, we are supposed to believe that a group of people who have a particular bias can create a “grand jury” and hand up an indictment? Any old group can form one. Someone pissed off at Microsoft? Let’s form a grand jury and indict it for monopoly practices. Dislike the way the umpire or referee called the last game? Form a grand jury and indict him for something–anything.

    What the judge ruled is obvious. To be a real grand jury, it has to be called using the procedure set down by the state, and its members have to be a cross-section of the community.

  24. smrstrauss,

    Microsoft is a natural born citizen!

  25. smrstrauss,

    To be a “real grand jury”, the judicial branch should have almost no say in how individuals are selected or how presentments are made. What’s supposed to happen during a grand jury is to prepare evidence to be handed over to the DA for potential prosecution. Did this happen in this or any other case like this? I didn’t think so.

    This is no different than when the King of England used to imprison jurors because he didn’t like the outcome of the trial. The whole intent of a grand jury is to prevent the government or a ruler from unjustly convicting innocent people while allowing the GJ to fairly and justly investigate crimes without the judicial branch intervening.

    We haven’t seen a “real grand jury” since the early 1800’s.

  26. I just re-read what the judge “Wapner” had to say today re. the presentments.

    I guess he really thinks we’re a bunch of idiots and have never been selected or served on a jury before. “Fair cross section of a district”? Who does this guy think he’s fooling!?!

    And my favorite is:

    “And although presentments are constitutionally permitted, there is no authority under the Rules of Criminal Procedure or in the statutes of the United States for this Court to accept one.”

    OK, so who accepts presentments under Constitutional authority? SCOTUS? The DA? If you’re so darned keen on the law, explain how they’re Constitutional but not accepted by the court.

    Somebody better explain who accepts presentments under Constitutional authority and work on getting them documentation right away, NOW if possible.

  27. Hi Richard,

    Agreed.

    I’m interested in this whole concept because I worked in the business for a several years after 9/11. Some of the intelligence was credible; most of it was chatter however, if something like this is brought to light by an ‘insider’ we really do need to pay attention. There was so much that went on in the months and years following 9/11 it’s astounding. The public never knew.

    While preparedness is a wonderful thing, being prepared does little good if the ‘government’ doesn’t have all their ducks in a row. We’ve always felt that no matter how diligent the preparation, if they wanted to get us, they would. The trick is to make it as tough for them as possible.

    I’ll be ordering the book and thanks for the heads up.

  28. JeffM, ridiculing this judge for ruling for the law but against your wishes is beside the point. Here is your quote. (DISCLAIMER: I have no idea whether this is accurate from the decision.)

    “I guess he really thinks we’re a bunch of idiots and have never been selected or served on a jury before. “Fair cross section of a district”? Who does this guy think he’s fooling!?!”

    If the ‘grand jurors’ all came from a pool of people who are committed to removing BO from office on the basis he is not a NBC then, the judge is absolutely correct. (This is only one problem with these ‘grand jurors,’ albeit an insurmountable one.)

  29. Re: “So, we are supposed to believe that a group of people who have a particular bias can create a “grand jury” and hand up an indictment?”

    There has been no answer to this question. The facts are that groups of people who are self-selected formed these “grand juries.” No one has said that the “grand juries” were carefully screened to include both supporters of Obama and critics of Obama.

    If it is possible to create a “grand jury” composed only of critics of some politician, then the Democrats will try to do it against Republicans, and vice versa. If it is possible to create a grand jury solely out of environmentalists, then any company can be indicted for polluting.

    Now you can call a group of people who issue a document that they call an indictment a grand jury, but the judge is right. He does not have to do anything about it. Why not? Because it is not really an indictment. It is only a piece of paper prepared by a group of people with a particular bias.

    At this point I think I can sense someone saying “how do you know that they were biased?’ The point is that there is a procedure involved in creating a grand jury that was not followed in this situation.

  30. Rocknee, you are a riot. (“Microsoft is a natural born citizen!”)

    smrstrauss, could not have explained this better myself.

  31. jbjd,

    I know full well how juries and grand juries are selected. And I’m sure you know full well that all juries are biased. Otherwise those who are selected would not be questioned at all. The bottom line is the court and its attorneys and judge gets to pick whomever they want on the juries. Plain and simple. Furthermore, the practive of allowing attorneys into the GJ has only been a recent phenomena, something the framers never intended.

    The bottom line is the judge made an assumption based on lack of information. How is it he knows that the individuals were not selected properly without investigating the GJ for its selection criteria? Perhaps he should explain that one.

    This is just another stop gap. Nothing more. Nothing less.

  32. Hey everybody,
    There’s millions of us out there that are beginning to PAY ATTENTION. We are far too embedded in and appreciative of our way of life. This sham will only last for so long. We can only be pushed so far before all hell breaks loose. Watch the numbers grow!

  33. TEEDEE and EVERYONE,

    Like I said befor ekeep passing the word.

    Print Pamphlets and leave them around. Make it a point to tell at least One new person per day about what is going on that the media is not telling them.

    One of the best way to do it is say something like this:
    Did you hear that there is a whole bunch of lawsuits filed to get Obama to prove he is a citizen. Can you believe that. Here is where you can find out more info.
    Or somethgin similar to that raising the issue as to raise curiosity and NOT convince them let them go and find out on their own. Tell them to Google it or something like that.

    Just spread the word, we all got to this point by starting somewhere first some of us probably had doubts inteh beginning as well and the more we learned the more we saw there was something to it.

    Just spread the word….numbers of people is what will resolve this. More and louder voices. The movement needs lots of back-up. The media, courts, representatives, etc won’t change their tune till there is an avalanche of public opinion.

  34. NOW HERE WE GO AGAIN:

    Normally, the question of a president’s place of birth is established long before he assumes the office of the Presidency, unless you’re Barack Hussein Obama. Prior to taking office, the Obama meme was that he was born at Queen’s Medical Center in Honolulu, Hawaii on August 4, 1961; however, as WND reports, Obama shifted his birth place account to name Kapi’ olani Medical Center in Honolulu as his birth place. The Library of Congress’ genealogist, William Adams Reitwiesner, originally listed Queen’s Medical Center as Obama’s place of birth. He has now changed it to Kapi’ olani. WND has tried to confirm with Kapi’ olani hospital officials’ the validity of the claim Obama was born at the hospital, but hospital officials declined to answer, citing health privacy concerns. WND notes that Snopes.com identifies Queen’s Medical Center as his place of birth. A UPI story on his presidential campaign announcement said, “Obama described his birth at Queen’s Medical Center in Hawaii Aug. 4, 1961, to a young white woman and a father of Luo ethnicity from Nyanza Province in Kenya . . . ” It appears Obama switched the account of his place of birth after taking office as President.”

    This is part of what caught my eye:
    “but hospital officials declined to answer, citing health privacy concerns.” What they are worried is about their HEALTH, they are afraid to get Donald Young bullet disease. Saying whether someone was born in their Hospital has nothgin to do with PRIVACY issues especially considering that the Patient is DEAD.
    I can see privacy issues with diseases, or abortion, etc. BUT being BORN is a PUBLIC event and needs no PRIVACY especially when it was PUBLISHED in a newspaper.

    If he wasn’t in that Hospital the Hospital has no Obligation or Agreement whatsoever with Obanana and can LEGALLY and EASILY say we have no RECORD of somoene of that name neing born here, we have no record of Stanley being ever here.

    This is MADNESS is this AMERICA? We can’t even find where a “President” was born which is a RESGISTERED EVENT.

  35. The above LINK is a great article worth the time to read for sure and pass it on and COMMENT and DISCUSS IT.

    I’m saying this because I had only read the beginning of it when I psoted the above comments.

  36. The grand juries are simply presenting a problem to a judge.

    The biased judge is dismissing the grand jury as if they handed down a final verdict, rather than evaluating the information given him which the grand jury has considered worthy of judicial investigation.

    No matter how “biased” the jury is, the judge is supposed to look at the problem presented, not the group of people presenting it. Then if the problem indeed looks serious, he calls together his “nonbiased jury” for a legal review and judgment.

    It looks like some re-training of our constitutional rights is needed, so that We the People can take back the reins and not be ruled by unjust and very biased judges.

    Also, as far as standing, if one of the smaller political parties like the Green Party or the Libertarians would sue the DNC and/or RNC in court for selecting a candidate, and signing affidavits that he was “eligible according to the constitution” when clearly he was not, the political party would have standing. One party challenging another party according to candidate election criteria.

    They need the court to define natural born citizen, and then decide if Obama and McCain indeed fit that court-defined criteria, so that all parties in the future are choosing their candidates according to the same criteria.

    They have been “injured” by they are sticking to the common definition, while the major parties ignored it.

    They need a commonly upheld legal definition of natural born citizen, and they need to know what parameters the future candidates must fit, as the elections always repeat every few years.

    This would seem a very easy way to enter the courts, handle the issues, confront Obama and the crooked parties behind him, and lay groundwork for the future elections.

    God bless America.

  37. PURE AND SIMPLE – WE HAVE BECOME A NATION RUN BY RACKETEERS AND FOR RACKETEERS.

    As Casey Stengel used to say “You can look it up”

    http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=480592

  38. If you have taxpayers money, Flaunt it!
    If you have taxpayers money, Flaunt it!
    If you have taxpayers money, Flaunt it!
    If you have taxpayers money, Flaunt it!
    If you have taxpayers money, Flaunt it!
    If you have taxpayers money, Flaunt it!

    Author – unknown

  39. truthbetold11

    Is larry sinclair selling his book outside the all star game? Obama is supposed to throw out the first pitch. A well informed crowd will send out the boo birds

  40. Richard………………………………
    Apparently sombody got their information WRONG. GAMMA does pass thru steel, though somewhat diminished. Still lethal, and detectable .

  41. Lead is the only material dense enough to contain GAMMA radiation. Gamma will even penetrate eight feet of concrete.
    I have been saying for a long time that the eventuality of nuclear weapons being used against u7s is a very strong possibility. People need to start learning about nuclear radiation, and how to survive such an attack. It is surviveable,but it requires an in depth knowledge of the subject.

  42. bob strauss

    Snopes, should clear up this matter, of place of birth, for Obama. One senator sited Snopes as his source on Obama’s eligibility. Now we have a dilemma, Snopes, is wrong, on the place of birth of Obama. It would appear the information they relied on to vet Obama was faulty. Snopes may want to take a new look at this issue, incorporating the latest information, and explain their mistake.

  43. been away from the dialog for awhile…what I am posting below is an edited version of something sent to me…can anyone validate the Q’s & A’s…and/or indicate their relevance, if there be any? Sorry: I don’t know the source of this, nor this name…
    ———————————————————–
    Paul Hollrah over at FSM believes the issue (of Obama’s citizenship) can be resolved by Obama answering a these questions:
    1) What passport did he use when he was shuttling between
    New York , Jakarta , and Karachi ?

    2) How did a young man who arrived in New York in early June 1981, without the price of a hotel room in his pocket, suddenly come up with the price of a round-the-world trip just a month later?

    3) To board a flight, shuttling between New York , Jakarta , and Karachi , what passport was he offering when he passed through Customs and Immigration?

    4) Did he travel to Pakistan in 1981, at age 20?
    A : Yes, by his own admission

    5) What passport did he travel under?
    A: There are only three possibilities.
    1) He traveled with a U.S. Passport,
    2) He traveled with a British passport, or
    3) He traveled with an Indonesia passport

    6) Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?

    A: No. It is not possible.
    Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department’s “no travel” list in
    1981.

  44. Civis naturaliter natus

    I agree, the Judge in this case, showed bias.

    True impartiality would have added, that though the presentement was not submitted from a jury constituted according to the rules and proceedures, yet out of respect for the authority of the people, the judge will be forwarding it to the DA for consideration, for after all, if the evidence contained therein is true, these folks are helping the judicial branch do its duty and saving us some time in gathering it…

  45. Civis naturaliter natus

    Jbjd,

    Thanks for the explanation for us who are not lawyers.

    There are those who say that a School Registration which lists his name as Barry Soetero, Indonesian citizen, is not court acceptable evidence of anything such…

    What say you?

  46. was it not already made known that Snopes is “in the tank” for BHO?…why would anyone then rely on any information they supply? They’ll have to decide for themselves how important and relevant their own integrity is…or isn’t…seems that, for now, it’s pretty worthless.

  47. Patriot Dreamer

    Brought over from the previous thread:

    **************************************
    jbjd // July 7, 2009 at 3:30 pm

    The South, this Plaintiff might have a “new twist,” but, he is using the same flawed logic as the other cases. In this case, he predicates his entire ‘FOIA’ suit on the ‘fact,’ BO and BS are two different people and so, by asking the state to release copies of what could otherwise be characterized as personal documents, Plaintiff is not violating any privacy to which BO is entitled. He only wants documents issued in the name of BS. That is, when asked on his IL bar registration application whether he used any other names, BO answered, “No.” Plaintiff ‘cleverly’ insists this ‘fact’ must be true because, lying on this bar application would be a felony. He then wonders, so, who is BS? He says, he needs the documents requested from the government, to find out. But Plaintiff gets this all wrong.

    No evidence exists tending to establish that BO lied on his IL bar registration. So, how do we reconcile that BO did not lie about use of another name, when he has admitted going by another name, even in ‘his’ book? Well, that question on the IL bar registration the Plaintiff in this case reads to mean, list any former names used by the applicant, actually means, list any former names under which the applicant was licensed to practice law in the state of IL. BO renewed his bar license, having only been licensed under the name BO.
    tesibria.typepad.com/…/did-obama-lie-o.html
    ****************************************

    That link at tesibria.typepad.com does not work, but I did some research on this issue a while back and I have a slightly different take:

    The lawyer search function at the ARDC web site only shows that BO has only held his Illinois bar license under the name of “Barack Hussein Obama”.

    http://www.iardc.org/ldetail.asp?id=24395466

    If I remember the research at the tesibria blog link correctly, the blogger called up the ARDC and confirmed this.

    However, the question asked of law students applying to take the Illinois bar exam is this (assuming that the wording has not changed since 1991): “2A Have you EVEN BEEN KNOWN BY ANY OTHER first, middle or last name? Yes [or] No”. (emphasis added.)

    https://www.ibaby.org/browseform.action?sid=249201001&ssid=306301001

    So, did BO disclose the fact to the Illinois bar examiners that he used to be known as Barry Soetoro as seems to be the case given his Indonesian school records? We don’t know, because the data field at the ARDC lawyer search does not reflect the answer to question 2A on the character & fitness portion of the Illinois bar exam application. Status: unknown or undetermined.

    I do agree with jbjd, though, that there is no evidence that shows that BO lied on his bar exam application. His bar exam application has not been released, so we really have no way of knowing one way or the other.

  48. Should there ever be 7 nuclear weapons detonated simultaneously across the US, it would be a very bad situation with regard to fallout and subsequent CESIUM137 contamination. The yeild, terrain, and altitude of the detonation will essentially dictate the diameter of the destruction. To thoroughly destroy a large city such as Chicago, a device of at least 10 megaton would be required. Strategic nuclear weapons would not work in such sprawled out cities. It would seem to me that our enemies would concentrate more on so called “dirty” bombs. With several simultaneous detonations of strategically placed dirty bombs in a city the size of Chicage the citycould be made so radioactive that most of it’s population could be dead within a few weeks unless they knew how to fight such radiation. It would be a very difficult situation, and will require a knowledgeable populace to increase the surviveability. However if the Islamic lunatics are able to get ahold of hydrogen bombs then all bets are off. Such a weapon could range upwards to 30 megatons and larger yields. Such a bomb has the potential to “rattle”the earth, and create sunamis. So, pick your poison. All I can say that if these lunatics were to set off about 20 of these weapons over a certain area of earth it could create volcanic erruptions at such a magnitude that it could concievably create another ice age. While this is all a projected prognosis, it is based upon proven scientific facts. If there are disbelievers in the crowd then you need to test it yourself and learn. Oh, I nearly forgot to mention that when you test it your dead body will probably be among the billions scatterred about the face of the earth. Nor will you be able to enjoy your 36 virgins. TA-TA.

  49. Patriot Dreamer

    With regard to the grand juries, I agree with jbjd on this one. I never thought that they would have any force of law, but what they are doing is raising public attention to the matter. Members of Congress probably thought that the whole BO eligibility matter would just go away on its own, but it is smoldering, because BO has decided to release as little information as possible while promising “openness and transparency”.

  50. Patriot Dreamer

    New article at World Net Daily on the conflicting hospitals of BO’s birth:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103306

  51. Bob Strauss…………………………

    If you are unaware of the SNOPES political allegiance, it has long age been determined to be PRO OBAMA. They would probably be the LAST place to ever surrender such information. I believe that JBJD is right when he says that we must shift the burden of proving the eligibility of Soetoro upon the DNC. They must be kept on the “defensive” rather than allowing them to take control and put us on the defensive. Sooner or later they will make a major mistake, and hopefully one of our own will be sharp enough to spot it immediately ,and know exactly how to make the best use of it.

  52. someone tell me where does it say a court has to appoint a national grand jury??

    and yes these people were randomly picked-and whose to say these folks weren’t randomly picked from across the nation?

    say good bye to the messiah
    http://www.rasmussenreports.com

    daily presidential rating, obama mama is down most ever for first time president in such a short period of time

  53. Patriot Dreamer…………………………..

    I had extended a little greater hope in the “Court of Last Resort”. The denial tells us the level of deterioration,and treason that has occurred within our alleged Federal Government. We do need to keep the OBOTS on the DEFENSIVE. Eventually they will make an irreparable mistake. I only hope that someone of our own cloth will be sharp enough to quickly see it, and know how to use it to damage the OBOTS enough to SINK them. When this occurs you will see millions of OBOT RATS abandoning ship, and squealing as they jump over the side.

  54. Patriot Dreamer

    Attorney Leo Donofrio made the point that a federal grand jury has tremendous power. Just think about it: after the federal grand jury is empanelled, they could say to an Obama appointee “Mr. United States Attorney, we’re not going to hear any evidence or presentations on your case until you show us by what authority you were appointed under the United States Constitution, and by that we mean show us the evidence that Obama is a natural born citizen and qualified to be President.” The Federal Rules of Evidence do not generally apply to federal grand jury proceedings, so admissibility of various documents is much less of an issue. A scenario such as this is unlikely to happen, though, because your average member of a federal grand jury does not realize the power that they have.

  55. Patriot Dreamer

    oldsalt77 // July 8, 2009 at 11:14 am

    I only hope that someone of our own cloth will be sharp enough to quickly see it, and know how to use it to damage the OBOTS enough to SINK them. When this occurs you will see millions of OBOT RATS abandoning ship, and squealing as they jump over the side.

    **************************************

    The Obots are in such denial about BO, that I imagine they will go down with the ship! LOL!

  56. We need to do anything, and everything to keep it smouldering, because a smouldering fire is the one that gains serious headway before the actual flame bursts forth. Aboard ship it is the most feared by firefighters, because it can even be directly under their feet without their knowledge.

  57. I think that most of us are intelligent enough to realise that there is still one more court available to us. The Feds are powerless in this one. You guess which one I am referring to!

  58. oldsalt77 // July 8, 2009 at 9:49 am

    Richard………………………………
    Apparently sombody got their information WRONG. GAMMA does pass thru steel, though somewhat diminished. Still lethal, and detectable
    _____________

    Oldsalt77, Im not sure what the facts are regarding radiation signatures/detection.

    A tactical nuke emits a temperature above 100 degrees, and i believe that i have seen in more than a few articles,
    that the radiation signature can be completely hidden.

    My copy of the book is in Washington D.C., so i can’t reference it.

    I’ll research it and get back with source info to defend or disprove it.

    Have you read the book and looked at Dr. Paul Williams cataloged sources of information ?

    It’s pretty impressive. Look at the reviews on Amazon.com

    I rarely recommend books like this one, but it is not like any other. It will seriously challenge the most objective, and also the most skeptical.

    Particularly with all information dated, and completely referenced.

    Don’t believe me, see for yourself.

  59. Oldsalt77,

    Maybe i misquoted myself, i believe it was lead that completely hides it.

    Thanks for correcting me. I said steel,
    your right.

  60. I have long thought that if we can prove that he never legally re instated the birth name of Obama, then he CANNOT be our legal POTUS. No matter how you stack it he must have legally reinstated his birth name, before he can legally be the POTUS. He registered, and ran for office using the Obama name. Now we need to find out where, and when it was reinstated. If it cannot be found then there is actionable question as to his legal identity. We need to explore ways to force him to reveal this information. If he refuses then there is a strong probability that he is in fact Barry Soetoro, and can be arrested by any Sheriff on probable cause. They would have to arrest him off of Federal property. Like when he attends one of the lectures at a privately owned property. It would require a large number of deputies as well. But there needs to br irrefutable proof of his actual identification.

  61. Im surprised Obama’s Illinoise bar application was never scrutinised, when he declared under penalty of purjury that he had never had other alias’s.

    Im surprised that Michelle Obama’s Illinoise bar license was suspended by court order, and no one even gave it a sigh, or glimpse. Or the contract that she awarded to a family friend named Furgeson, while employed at the Chicago hospital job where she worked, after Barrack who was the Senator from Ill. swung money at the hospital.

    Saw that at (the obama file) at
    obamacitizenshipfacts.org

  62. Re: “I have long thought that if we can prove that he never legally re instated the birth name of Obama, then he CANNOT be our legal POTUS.”

    Answer: He never officially changed his name. They simply called him by that name while he was in Indonesia.

    Re: “There are those who say that a School Registration which lists his name as Barry Soetero, Indonesian citizen, is not court acceptable evidence of anything such…”

    Answer: Is it possible to lie on a school application? Yes.

    Was this application an official government document? No it was an application to a private school. Was the application saying that he was an Indonesian citizen a lie? Yes it was. Both the US government (the State Department in a response to a Freedom of Information Act legal filing) and the Indonesian government have now said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

    Re: “6) Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?

    A: No. It is not possible.
    Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department’s “no travel” list in
    1981.”

    Total baloney. Pakistan was never on the no-travel list. Pakistan never kept US citizens from visiting. In fact, it granted them 30-day visas on arrival. So Obama could, and did, travel on a US passport.

    Re: “and yes these people were randomly picked-and whose to say these folks weren’t randomly picked from across the nation?”

    Baloney again. The members of the “grand jury” were all anti-Obama people. However, if you have evidence that the people were randomly selected, show it. There have been no reports on who “empanelled” this “grand jury” or how the members were selected, and the same goes for the various other “grand juries” at the state level. It would be just as easy, and just as fair, for the US Communist Party to empanel a group of its members and call it a “grand jury” to investigate an alleged crime by George Bush.

    Re: “How is it he knows that the individuals were not selected properly without investigating the GJ for its selection criteria? Perhaps he should explain that one.’

    Answer: The judge received a document from a group of people he does not know that CLAIMED to be a grand jury. Is he supposed to accept all the documents of all the groups that claim to be grand juries? Is he supposed to investigate them all?

    Re: “True impartiality would have added, that though the presentement was not submitted from a jury constituted according to the rules and proceedures, yet out of respect for the authority of the people, the judge will be forwarding it to the DA for consideration.”

    Answer: I figure that the group can send a copy to the DA for consideration itself. In fact, it probably has.

  63. Old news i know, but i just had to shoot my emotional load, so i can relax today.
    _____________

    Michelle Obama has been described as a “distinguished attorney” despite the fact that Michelle Obama has been “inactive” since 1993.

    Michelle has been on court ordered inactive status with the Illinois State Attorneys bar from 1993, after only 4 years of practicing law. What did she do?

    This Attorney Registration and Disciplinary Commission (ARDC) suspension is for discipline reasons…not for those volunteering to stop practicing. It is COURT ORDERED…not “Michelle Obama ordered.” Their website is very clear about their function and why they step in.

    An attorney, points out, “sounds more to me like she was drummed right out of the practice of law. I am just dying to know what she did… she ran to have a court ordered inactive status done…and then no malpractice report needed to be provided.

    She wanted this to “go away” fast and furious and the details not come out in depositions, courtroom documents, rulings for the client/plaintiffs…etc..

    The ARDC is the agency of the Supreme Court of Illinois which registers attorneys and investigates complaints of misconduct filed against attorneys holding a license to practice law in Illinois.

    Their principal purpose is to assist the Supreme Court to determine a lawyer’s fitness to practice law in Illinois. If a complaint is made that an attorney, licensed to practice law in Illinois, has engaged in illegal, unethical or dishonest conduct, they will investigate and, if warranted, bring formal disciplinary charges. The Supreme Court of Illinois will then ultimately decide if a lawyer should be censured (publicly rebuked), suspended (having the law license to practice either taken away for a certain period of time or placed on a probationary period) or disbarred (having the law license taken away indefinitely).

    The ARDC cannot impose fines, imprison, obtain monetary damages, enforce remedies between the lawyer and client, or seek civil or criminal relief against a lawyer as part of the disciplinary process. They can affect only the lawyer’s ability to practice law in Illinois.

    They are not funded by taxpayers’ money. They are funded entirely by the annual registration fees paid by attorneys authorized to practice law in Illinois.
    ____________

    And the MSM say’s she wonderful and beautiful.

    We really don’t have a Silverback in the White House, or do we ?

  64. Civis naturaliter natus

    SMRstrauss,

    How do you know that Obama used a US Passport to go to Pakistan? Did you ask him? Do you work for him?

    And no, I did not ask you the question about his Franciscan School Registration, so it is rude of you to answer it…

  65. According to another source, the reason Michelle Obama’s law license is inactive”by court order” is because that used to be a requirement for inactiver status…..meaning she would not have to pay fees or do the continued education classes to keep her license up. The reason Obama’s does not say “by court order” is because by the time he when inactiver, a court order had become unnecessary.

    I do not know the accuracy of this information, just passing along what I found a while back when I googled this subject.

    I have also found that I cannot prove that Maya ever had a COLB like many sites have claimed and I have also been unable to prove there was a travel ban in place to Pakistan. Of course that still doesn’t mean he used a US passport to enter that country and requests for copies of that passport have been railroaded.

    If anyone has proof of this or of Maya having a COLB, please link me because I cannot substantiate these widespread claims………

    hate rumors……

  66. magna carta

    I will check the obama file archives…

  67. During my Navy enlistment I was assigned to a support group which attended the 1954 Eniwetok H bomb tests. I personally witnessed tests of several different variations of H devices, and cobalt devices from about 40 miles distance. The most notorious device tested was the now infamous “BRAVO” test which ended up contaminating over 7000 square miles of the Pacific Ocean, Eastward with residue still detectable halfway around the Earth several months later. It also contaminated the USS Bairoko CVE 115 so heavily that the crew had to be removed from it. She was ultimately towed back to the states, and underwent heavy decontamination procedures at Bremerton. She was subsequently sold to the Japanese for scrap. This ship was only 11 years of age.To this day I am not allowed to discuss certain aspects of these tests. It is however general knowledge that the US is still paying for the well being, and care of many natives of Micronesia, and nearby islands of the Marshall Islands, which includes Eniwetok. Before our deployment we were required to attend the US Navy Radiological School at Bremerton WA. While this was in depth material it only reflected the knowledge of the particular date. I do not in any way portray myself as any sort of guru of Nuclear Radiation. However it has remained an interest of mine since the 50s and I have done a great deal of studying through the interim years on my own. I personally absorbed some very high doses of radiation. My research went into a wide area of Nuclear studies which included gamma rays,alpha and Beta particles,exrays, and much more.This included iodine 31 and 32, strontium 90, and Plutonium,Cesium137 etc. However there is a great deal that I do not know about yet. I have also explored radiation defenses, and the destructive power of various nuclear weapons. I feel that any knowledge of nuclear radiation would to a degree increase anyone’s chances of survival. Knowing how to protect yourself will be of paramount importance should you survive the initial detonation of a nuclear device. All thru the cold war I made it my business to learn as much as possible about nuclear weapons, and surviving after a detonation. I think that if I survived the initial detonation that I would have a much improved probability of survival of the radiation left behind,because of what I have learned both from the Eniwetok tests, and what I have managed to learn in the interim years to now. I still continue to read,even though I am now 77 years of age.
    There is a great deal of information on the internet regarding the 1954 BRAVO test. If you haven’t yet read all of the data, there is STILL more information being uncovered each day relating to the the test. While I am still not allowed to talk about certain specifics of it, it was OK for the US Government to televise the BRAVO test WORLDWIDE. A little confusing to say the least!
    By the way you should take a look at what happens to the DNA strand when it absorbs radiation. Very scary stuff. This in itself can fill many volumes.

  68. If the ‘grand jurors’ all came from a pool of people who are committed to removing BO from office on the basis he is not a NBC then, the judge is absolutely correct.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    The jury is expected to consist of Obots??

  69. PURE AND SIMPLE – WE HAVE BECOME A NATION RUN BY RACKETEERS AND FOR RACKETEERS.

    As Casey Stengel used to say “You can look it up”

    Or even worse……….you can’t make this sh** up!!!

  70. magna carta

    Sandy here is a link on Michelle’s ‘inactive status”

    http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.com/atlas_shrugs/2008/12/wtf-michelle-ob.html

  71. Sandy and all,
    I remember reading the MO’s law license was
    taken away from her with the reason “sealed”
    from public view. This was ages ago when
    the question came up why would someone
    with a fully funded Ivy League degree let it
    go so easily after using a law license so little?
    Don’t think we are going to find out the
    truth or what she did to have it taken away.
    What I read had nothing to do with cont. ed.
    as an excuse.

  72. I think that most of us are intelligent enough to realise that there is still one more court available to us. The Feds are powerless in this one. You guess which one I am referring to!

    Is it the ‘civil court’??

  73. SMRSTRAUSS……………………………………

    I believe that somebody needs to examine the alleged ADOPTION PAPERS OF LOLO SOETORO RELATING TO THE LEGAL ADOPTION OF LIL BARRY,AFTER LOLO MARRIED MS STANLEY ANNE D. OBAMA. IT ALLEGEDLY WAS A REQUIREMENT FOR HIM TO ATTEND SCHOOL IN INDONESIA.
    It should be an easy matter to determine what the Indonesian law was at that time, why don’t we slide backward a little, and do some research on this matter. Then we will know if we should thank SMRSTRAUSS, or to tell him/her to take a long walk on a short OBOTpier!

    !

  74. Clarification Please—- never had to ask this one on the blog, but is it contraband to reply to a question that originally may be brought to the forum for another here? Seems rather unpleasant to attack a poster based on this. Didn’t happen to me personally, but think we need a clarification since it’s been challenged here. Just wondering. Thanks. Maddie.

  75. JJ …………………………

    To me you sound like an OBOT. If you think I am so damn stupid that I am going to tell you about something I learned BEFORE you were born, you should go back to your friends over in the OBOT camp. They are the only ones that are that stupid.

  76. MC….I had read that article before…..and even used it in agruing that she must have done something shady.

    Then someone posted a site where one of us “birthers” had actually called this Discipline board and found the information I posted above.

    As a result, he retracted his original claim that Michelle was guilty of wrong doing. I found that refreshing since you never see such admission from the lefty bloggers.

    However, it still doesn’t answer the question as to why one would go inactive after such a grueling process to become licensed. She had to take the bar twice from what I read………

  77. Cnn, you specifically ask whether BO’s use of the name, Barry Soetoro, on that school registration form, is evidence of “anything” in a court of law. Well, inasmuch as he did not fill out this form, but presumably, his father did, this would tend to indicate, BO was known by the name of Barry Soetoro when he attended that school. The court is always the final arbiter of whether evidence can be introduced into the record; the judge or jury will determine what weight to give any evidence admitted. (HINT: Just because something is introduced into the record as evidence, whether in the form of documents or oral testimony, does not mean, such evidence will be credited at all.)

    Next time, please, reserve your ill-tempered remarks to me for not answering your question fast enough rather than to another commenter (smrstrauss) who seemingly was just trying to help out.

  78. Oldsalt77,

    Has the U.S. Navy countered the Chinese “Sunburn” missle with a new counter measure ? Also known as moskit from russian terminology.

    This missle goes super fast and skims the water under the radar and can manuver, and is most likely nuclear tipped.

    Last i checked, we did not have any defense against it, and that it poses a serious threat to the Pacific fleet, particularly Aircraft carriers.

    Any thoughts ?

  79. That is what I mean about rumors. Someone picked this Michelle Obama story up and made a big deal out of it. Google Michelle Obama disbarred. This little tid-bit spawned so much disinformation. Of course she was never disbarred.

    The whole Maya had a COLB story was based on one guy, probably an obot, claiming that he did forensics on the factcheck document and discovered her name under Baracks. One guy said this and blogs everywheere ignited with the story and it morphed into fact that Maya had one….

    Same with the Pakistani travel ban….

    We look like idiots trying to state our case using information that cannot be proven or has, in fact, been disproven….

    See how easy it was for that obot to come in here and shoot holes right through it?

    We must get and use only facts. If these are facts we need reliable sourcing information.

    I have found none for all three of these instances

  80. smrstrauss, on what basis were you able to conclude BO used a U.S. Passport to travel to Pakistan in 1981?

  81. JJ

    I have a question that all OBOTS are afraid to even look at. Why does your Messiah keep spending thousands of dollare to hide something that should, and could end ALL of the questions about both his identity, and his eligibility to hold office. These are questions that it would seem anyone with NOTHING TO HIDE would be happy to provide proof of if for no other reason than to watch conservatives squirm. That has long been a trait of the Democrats.

  82. Patriot Dreamer said:

    “I never thought that they would have any force of law, but what they are doing is raising public attention to the matter. ”

    On the contrary, according to Judge Royce “Wapner” Lamberth they are a force of law by stating:

    “And although presentments are constitutionally permitted..”

    What he was saying in his letter was:

    a. The court can’t accept the presentments, but they are constitutional

    b. The grand jury selection doesn’t coincide with the process the court follows and therefore has no merit in his court room

    c. The grand jury isn’t under the same district of the court

    In a nutshell he’s saying :

    1. Discover who can accept these constitutional presentments. Is it Congress? SCROTUS? Some other body mentioned in the Constitution?

    2. Ensure the grand jury is in the same jurisdiction of the court

    3. Follow the grand jury policy of that court or consitutional body

    That doesn’t sound all that difficult to do.

  83. Patriot Dreamer

    There’s an old saying (attributed to either Mark Twain or to Winston Churchill):

    “A lie can make it half way around the world before the truth has time to put its boots on. ”

    😀

  84. The right side of life has an article where BO admits his old home town where he grew up is in Indonesia.

  85. Richard…………………………

    Within our Navy’s defensive weaponry lies a little known detection “ear” that is capable of hearing extremely long distances when deployed. this includes underwater, and from the surface upwards to an unknown altitude. A ship or sub would deploy such weapons then operate within the protective circumference that they provide. The information goes through defense satellites that are capable of keeping an offensive weapon as you suggest only a few seconds from destruction by certain surface to surface defensive weapons that are capable of over mach 5. (Approximately 3500mph.)Are the alleged Chinese weapons capable of this speed also, or is your information only conjecture?Need proof of design. US Navy already hes the missile I mentioned deployed. Our sube uae a special hearing technology which is regarded as classified. The sonobouy that I mentioned is a sub surface variation of this technology It’s hearing capability is also classified.

  86. Richard………………………..

    I set up a hypothetical situation taking place within a 3000 mile diameter circle containing a thirty five knot supercarrier and the normal escorts, including a missile defense sub. Assume all systems are functioning as designed, and operated by knowledgeable techs. If a Sunburn missile was detected inbound at say mach 5 it would be heard shortly after it had already passed the sonobouy, but we must remember that the sonobouy has also extended range of hearing TOWARD the inbound weapon . This would to a degree offsett it’s speed. After crunching the numbers using these speeds against the variables, and known values There would be less than a couple of minutes to respond to such an attack. I have to say that carriers might become sitting ducks, unless the SDI ststems can be utilised. My guess is that the escorts would become expendable items to save the carrier. Then after the attack a BOOMER would track the exhaust gasses of the Sunburn and provide the people who launched it a little surprise from a mach 3 missile carrying a 5 kiloton warhead. My best guess!

  87. Having an “impartial” jury panel is absurd. And it just does not matter. The grand jury hands down “presentments” these “charges” are “presented” to the court. Only the court can issue indictments and then an investigation will be conducted by the proper authorities. If the court deems the presentments to be frivolous or without merit then that is what the court will rule. The make up of the jury is moot.

  88. Patriot Dreamer,

    There is also another saying that goes something like this:

    1000 lies will never equal the truth.

  89. There’s just no way in hell to “knowingly” panel and “unbiased” jury anywhere, or anytime.It’s impossible!

    Even if the jury members tell you to your face they are unbiased, how can you know? Can you just take their word for it?

    And who the hell else is going to convene a Citizens Grand Jury against Obama, other than “citizens who believe a law has been broken”?

    The judge needs to familiarize himself with the Constitutional definition of a CGJ, and not his own belief system (which seems to be the case).

    After all, these jury members didn’t sentence Obama to prison, they merely handed forth presentments of evidence.They believe a law has been broken, and therefore are presenting their evidence to the court to “study”, to determine whether or not the presented evidence merits a trial.

    This judge is a Chicken Sh*t plain and simple.

    Where’s the “common sense” in our judicial system?

  90. Patriot Dreamer

    PRWH-PF // July 8, 2009 at 3:57 pm

    Patriot Dreamer,

    There is also another saying that goes something like this:

    1000 lies will never equal the truth.
    ************************************

    Indeed! Mark Twain also has another one:

    “Always tell the truth. That way, you don’t have to remember what you said.”

  91. Obama Denies History

    Obama refuses to admit the U. S. won the Cold War

  92. Then Tells Another Whopper

    Obama met wife in school.

    Barack Obama joined the Chicago law firm, Sidley Austin, as a summer intern in 1989. That’s where he met his future wife, Michelle Robinson, who was his adviser.

    Michelle obtained her Juris Doctor degree from Harvard Law School in 1988. Obama began Harvard Law School in in the fall of the same year. They were never at law school at the same time. This is just another senseless Obama lie to add to the ever-growing list.

    A separate issue is, why does Obama tell so many needless lies? Further down the page is an item about Obama’s birthplace. Obama has personally claimed to be born in two separate hospitals.

    What is wrong with him?

    article posted here – http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm

  93. citizenwells

    I have known several pathological liars in my lifetime.
    I have also discussed the subject with experts.
    Pathological liars tell so many lies that they cannot keep up with what
    they have said and they will say anything.

  94. Civis naturaliter natus

    Jbjd,

    “Next time, please, reserve your ill-tempered remarks to me for not answering your question fast enough rather than to another commenter (smrstrauss) who seemingly was just trying to help out.”

    For the record, how do you know my remark was ill tempered, or that I was impatient that you had not answered?

    I had no ill temper at all. There is a thing called righteous anger…look it up…

  95. Patriot Dreamer

    This is off topic, but Austrian journalist Jane Bürgermeister has been fired ostensibly because she recently filed charges against the WHO over Swine Flu & Baxter. You can read more about it on her blog:

    http://birdflu666.wordpress.com/2009/07/01/about-my-being-fired-yesterday/

    Or at:

    http://www.infowars.com/journalist-fired-over-flu-pandemic-lawsuit/

  96. Patriot Dreamer

    CW, I have a couple of threads that are in moderation. When you get the chance, could you release them, please? Thanks!

  97. Patriot Dreamer

    “posts”, I mean – not “threads”. Oops!

  98. Richard………………..OFF SUBJECT………………

    Regarding the incoming Sunburn; I erred in the speed of the upload, and subsequent targeting of the offensive missile. It would require less than 2 seconds to acquire the target and fire the defensive missile. This is done at (186,000 miles per second.) This was my error. There is actually closer to 45 minutes to intercept and destroy the incoming Sunburn. If our defensive missile is fired within a matter of minutes the incoming Sunburn would be destroyed probably outside of a perimeter of 500 miles at least. It would not effect a carrier at all even if it carried a nuclear weapon. Of course this is all based upon the carrier being in the exact middle of the 3000 mile diameter circle. The time that the carrier would have to respond would be substantially reduced if it was operating closer to the detecting sonobouys,or detection point of the incoming missile.

  99. JeffM—
    Thanks for the clarification of the Grand Jury.
    It didn’t make sense (to a none
    legal “beagle” ) that a judge could arbitrarily
    comment that the jurors selected were not
    randomly selected—how on earth could he
    surmise that? Or is it, rather, that he does
    not like: 1. the presentments and 2. what
    the presentments imply!
    ++++++++++
    How is it he knows that the individuals were not selected properly without investigating the GJ for its selection criteria? Perhaps he should explain that one.
    —–totally agree, JeffM.

  100. Columbus, Ohio, WTVN Radio comment today:

    Why is Obama “avoiding” Kenya in his visit
    to Africa?

  101. Pathological liar—-claiming to be born in
    two different hospitals—now that’s a real trick,
    especially if there is really a third hospital
    claimed on a DIFFERENT CONTINENT!

  102. Maddie……………………………..Cood Lord Maddie, he is the Messiah,remember? He could probably have been born in a 300 hospitals simultantously, and anywhere on earth to boot, and still be a NBC. Geez if it is ok for Hawaii,and OBOTS to lie about this then we are free to imagine anything we dream up. This is the raft of manure that the OBOTS would have everybody believe.

  103. I don’t believe Obama is eligible either, but I hope those fighting on our side use our dollars wisely with the tactics they choose. It’s a recession. If they ask for donations to support the cause, I hope they use tactics that will work. That’s my two cents anyway.

  104. OldSalt77—
    Oh dear, I forgot, anything’s
    possible with the manure they’re piling on!
    Thanks for the reminder.
    ++++++++++

    Tina,
    I agree that I’d like our donations to be
    spent very wisely. Things aren’t so great
    (economy wise) anywhere here. Very good
    point to mention.

  105. Maddie // July 8, 2009 at 6:23 pm

    Hi Maddie,

    I think we all know the answer to that question: Because the evidence is there!

  106. Sandy and Everyone,

    Off topic (sorry) with an interesting update.

    With only a few days left and the auction at $2800 and change, eBay has pulled Colmado_Naranja’s listing for the *7th* time.

    The sellers still claim legitimacy. This auction has gone through several revisions; the latest one being a photo of Lucas Smith and Andylenny supposedly at the airport either before or after they got Spanky’s Kenyan Birth Certificate. Although they couldn’t mention the BC in the listing (eBay won’t allow the auctioning of ‘political documents’) it was supposedly going to be thrown in with the photo.

    No YouTube video as promised by the sellers, and no trip to WND with ‘the goods.’

    Let’s see if they have the intestinal fortitude to list it an 8th time!

  107. I am losing my patience. (sp?)

    I have had it trying to use band aids to repair two severed arms and legs.

    Dear Amy,

    I appreciate and support the efforts of the Tea Party groups. I have written repeatedly your efforts are good, honest, and enthusiastic. However they are misdirected. They are misleading the public. The problem is America is no longer a Republic of “We the people and by the people.” In case you haven’t noticed, Neither congress, Senate, nor the Supreme Court hears us. Complaining to the Congress or your elected officials or public protests of your type is equal to spitting in the wind. No it is worse than that–IT IS VALIDATING AN ALREADY ILLEGAL PRESIDENT AND GOVERNMENT BY IGNORING THE MAN IN THE WH IS A USURPER AND CHALLENGING WHAT HE DOES AS LEGAL. Shame, shame on you.

    The reality is America is an oligarchy under a dictatorship. Your tea parties are a major waste of effort if it fails to recognize A is A. It became so the day an illegal alien broke and entered the WH and became America’s first USURPER. UNTIL YOUR ROAD-TO-HELL-PAVED-WITH-GOOD-INTENTIONS-TEA PARTY AWAKEN TO THIS FACT, YOU ARE MERELY PERFORMING AN EXERCISE in FUTILITY. YOU ARE EXACTLY WHAT YOUR NAME CLAIMS –PANTYWAIST, tea party, GIGGLING, SILLY PEOPLE WHO HAVEN’T THE FOGGIEST IDEA AS TO WHAT REALLY HAPPENED TO AMERICA.

    The one and most effective issue to mend above all other issues is the fact Obama is simply not a legal American president. He is a fake, a con man, a liar, and criminal who has committed a grave crime against America. Everything he does as a usurper is illegal. If you don’t like his policies and the bills he is passing get rid of him and instead of fighting his actions. Once he is gone, there won’t be any disgusting issues to oppose by him. This isn’t rocket science. It is simple logic. A is A.

    Any thing other than demanding Obama prove his eligibility to be President is merely a denial of the real problem.

    Time is of the essence.
    Good luck–I truly wish you success.

    usapatriots-shout

  108. oldsalt77 // July 8, 2009 at 2:18 pm

    JJ

    I have a question that all OBOTS are afraid to even look at. Why does your Messiah keep spending thousands of dollare to hide something that should, and could end ALL of the questions about both his identity, and his eligibility to hold office. These are questions that it would seem anyone with NOTHING TO HIDE would be happy to provide proof of if for no other reason than to watch conservatives squirm. That has long been a trait of the Democrats.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    My God, Old Salt, that would require:
    1)thinking for yourself
    2) common sense

    I rest my case>>>>>>.

  109. oldsalt77 // July 8, 2009 at 2:00 pm

    JJ …………………………

    To me you sound like an OBOT. If you think I am so damn stupid that I am going to tell you about something I learned BEFORE you were born, you should go back to your friends over in the OBOT camp. They are the only ones that are that stupid.
    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
    I’m almost 59, was Dem. until 2000, became Repub, but changed to Independent in 2007, when I had to re-register in Ky. moving from Tn, so I’ve seen lots of crap and finally acknowledged that party means nothing….
    I cried for hours Nov. 4th, after voting for Mccain to vote against the illegal alien…..I knew my vote was stolen as I marked the squares to submit to the machine.
    I have been sacrificing since Mar, 2008 to store food, ammo for the guns…….you are so wrong about me…..I spent hours mailing packages to the Ky. electors …….ask any poster on this site about JJ from http://restoretheconstitutionalrepublic.com/forum/index.php
    CitizenWells
    fairflight
    fluff1818
    jahohio
    jdummett
    JJ Hero Member 2008-11-08 819
    Rocknee
    RLawrence

    May God bless all and heaven help me for sounding like an obot.

    My input on this site alone would keep you busy for months.

  110. Anonymouse

    Who is Ed Darrell? Is that his real name?

    Two days ago, on the “Kerchner v Obama, attorney Mario Apuzzo . . . .” thread, I challenged some of Darrell’s assertions with respect to Obama’s citizenship. In so doing, I cited two statements on Obama’s campaign site, “Fight The Smears,” viz.:

    Citing FactCheck.org —
    “his Kenyan citizenship automatically expired on Aug. 4,1982.”

    and

    a statement that Barack Obama is —
    “a native citizen of the United States of America”

    Today, The Obama File ( http://www.theobamafile.com/ObamaLatest.htm ) reported that Obama’s Fight The Smears website has been taken down. Is the timing a coincidence? Or do some power-imbued obots (a pay grade above the generic obots) monitor the Citizen Wells discussions?

    Not only has the Fight The Smears site been removed from public access, but The Obama File reported that the archived copies in the WayBackMachine likewise vanished. So that dispels the thought that maybe FTS was taken down for maintenance.

    Did the person responsible for scrubbing the Fight The Smears site and the WayBackMachine site not realize that countless Obama researchers — including the compiler of The Obama File — have archived screenshots and PDFs of the sites so that they are still available as evidence in, say, FBI investigations and court cases?

    Is the scrubber aware that attempting to hide information is tantamount to admitting its veracity?

  111. goodtimepolitics

    Just hang in there friends, Obama is headed for the bottom of the pit when it comes to approval ratings by the American people! Lowest today ever!

    http://goodtimepolitics.com/2009/07/08/obamas-approval-rating-drops-to-its-lowest/

  112. smrstrauss

    Re: “How do you know that Obama used a US Passport to go to Pakistan? Did you ask him? Do you work for him?”

    He never had either a British or an Indonesian passport. How do you know that he had either a British or Indonesian passport? Did you ask him? Did you ask the British or Indonesian embassies?

    Re: “I have a question that all OBOTS are afraid to even look at. Why does your Messiah keep spending thousands of dollare to hide something that should, and could end ALL of the questions about both his identity, and his eligibility to hold office.”

    We are not in the slightest bit afraid. The answer is simple. Not a single lawsuit against Obama was for him to produce documents. Not a single lawsuit asked the court to direct Obama to show the court his birth certificate. All the lawsuits were to stop the election or to stop the certification of the election.

    Re: “ADOPTION PAPERS OF LOLO SOETORO RELATING TO THE LEGAL ADOPTION OF LIL BARRY”

    There are no adoption papers. Obama was never adopted. The US State Department has now issued a legal document that covers that issue. http://www.obamaconspiracy.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/strunk-answer.pdf. The relevant paragraph is:

    “To the extent this paragraph alleges that Lolo Soetoro is or ever was President Obama’s father by birth or adoption, that allegation is denied. To the extent this paragraph alleges that President Obama is or ever was a practicing Muslim, that allegation is denied.”

    Re: “The make up of the jury is moot.”

    So any group can create what it calls a grand jury? And that grand jury can issue “presentments” which the court can accept or not. The latter is true. The court does not have to accept anything. But one reason that it does not have to accept something is that the group that calls itself a grand jury is actually not a grand jury.

    Re: “And who the hell else is going to convene a Citizens Grand Jury against Obama, other than “citizens who believe a law has been broken”?

    Sure. If you think that there is such a thing as a Citizens grand jury. But if there is, then the same question can be asked of any president, or any politician, or indeed anyone. Any group can create a citizens grand jury and issue a presentment, and then ask “Who the hell else is going to convene a “citizens” grand jury against President Bush or Senator Hatch or Joe Smith other than citizens who believe a law has been broken?”

    Re: “They believe a law has been broken, and therefore are presenting their evidence to the court to “study”, to determine whether or not the presented evidence merits a trial.”

    The correct procedure is to present the evidence to the law enforcement authorities, usually district attys. Why wasn’t this done in this case?

  113. TO smrstrauss,

    Here is the true test of an unbiased American Patriot: If one of your own was doing WRONG would you turn him in?

    I Voted for Bush Twice BUT I supported his IMPEACHMENT and supported Tom Tancredo in teh last election and donated to him and begged him to draw up articles of Impeachment against Bush for looking teh other way and allow the “illegals invasion” of America. He should have been IMPEACHED for that.

    Clearly there are questions about Obama, an UPSTANDING MAN of INTEGRITY would have TRANSPARENTLY CLEARD THEM UP when the first or second lawsuit was filed.
    Instead he plays LIE-beral games like all you LIE-berasl do all the time.

    There is something HUGE and TROUBLING being hidden here and it will be the DESTRUCTION of the Liberal/Progressive wing of the DNC if not all of the DNC. We will NEVER back away, we will NEVER GIVE UP. Us TRUTHERS, BIRTHERS, OATHKEEPERS, TEABAGGERS, CONSTITUTIONALISTS, “RIGHT WINGERS” will keep at it until you DENIERS show prove or are DEFEATED.

    Keep in mind that MORE and MORE everyday are lining up behind US. This will be WON in the Real People’s Court: The Court Of Public Opinion.

  114. truthbetold11

    Watch closely the all star reception he gets. it will be realitivly quiet. but msm will make it look like a thunderous ovation. watch!

  115. truthbetold11

    the baseball all star game he’s throwing the first pitch

  116. Is it my computer or are both GBAmerica’s most recent posts blank?

  117. Maddie,

    You are absolutely correct about Mr. “Wapner”. His place is not to state items to which have no bearing on the presentments. What he should have said is simply:

    “Thank you for bringing a presentment to our attention. Unfortunately, the presentments can not be accepted based on U.S. Code and the rules of this court, nor can it accept any paperwork from an individual or group that is outside of U.S. District xxxxxx.”

    That’s it. No “Denied”. No “you’re a bunch of biased cooks”. Nothing. It’s really irrelevent and useless tripe otherwise.

  118. They were doing that to me to.Did they show up??

  119. GBAmerica // July 8, 2009 at 10:21 pm

    They were doing that to me to.Did they show up??

    *********************************************

    Still blank, GB and who are ‘they?’

  120. magna carta

    OK..on Saturday in Houston..we have visitors.
    Rep. Gutierrez of IL. +Rep. Gene Green (a cap @tax fan) will have a town hall meeting to an all Mexican church gathering to discuss …guess what?
    I’m getting a sound permit tommorrow.Any bullhorn requests?

  121. magna carta,

    Make sure to barricade the doors of the church first before you bullhorn them for a few hours…

  122. Off Topic:

    Good news for Ohio—John Kasich (R)is going
    to run for governor against Strickland.
    He’s very level-headed, and I believe Kasich
    could turn this state around from all its
    economic problems and more.

  123. Maddie,

    Beware of anyone with an (R) next to his or her name, that is unless that person’s name is also a trademark.

    The same applies to anyone with a (D). If we continue to be abused by these two unconstitutional, non-representing parties, change will never come. If people don’t believe me, just ask Congrass what they’ve been doing for the past 20 years.

  124. Hi Sue and GBAmerica—
    GB’s posts are showing up for me as videos–
    The Great Messiah of Lies and the other is about Tea Parties on July 4th.

  125. Hi Maddie,

    Must be my &%$#@ masheen. I have blanks.

    Will try again later.

  126. JeffM— I know and agree (D &R–beware).

  127. Tell your Senators to oppose Cap-and-Trade. Sign the petition:

    http://www.campaignforliberty.com/campaigns/hr2454petition.php

  128. magna carta

    I just read on ALIPAC forum that Lindsey Graham might support sotomayor.He needs calls.

  129. Judicial Watch Asks Court to Declare Hillary Clinton Constitutionally Ineligible to Serve as Secretary of State

    http://www.judicialwatch.org/news/2009/jul/judicial-watch-asks-court-declare-hillary-clinton-constitutionally-ineligible-serve-se

  130. smrstrauss, how on earth can government lawyers representing Defendant federal departments in a civil suit, provide an Answer to a Complaint that refers to a 3rd party, BO? These lawyers deny that BO was adopted as a child living in a foreign country; and that, he was a practicing Muslim. But they are not representing BO; and he is not a party to this case. Of course, Defendants’ Motion to Dismiss will be granted, for all the reasons they stated in that Motion. So, notwithstanding these denials are irregular for the reasons I stated, Defendants nonetheless could not pass up the opportunity to ‘spin’ BO’s story, one more time.

  131. Kerchner v Obama, attorney Mario Apuzzo, US Constitution, standing, immunity, July 4, 2009

  132. Anonymouse

    1.

    Smrstrauss, my reply to you is a two-parter in order to have only one link per post. Yesterday at 12:36 pm you wrote:

    === Re: “6) Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?

    A: No. It is not possible.Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department’s “no travel” list in1981.”

  133. Anonymouse

    Oops, a stray end-of-line code truncated my post. Let’s try a replay . . .

    1.

    Smrstrauss, my reply to you is a two-parter in order to have only one link per post. Yesterday at 12:36 pm you wrote:

    === Re: “6) Is it possible that Obama traveled with a U.S. Passport in 1981?

    A: No. It is not possible.Pakistan was on the U.S. State Department’s “no travel” list in1981.”

    Total baloney. Pakistan was never on the no-travel list. Pakistan never kept US citizens from visiting. In fact, it granted them 30-day visas on arrival. So Obama could, and did, travel on a US passport. ===

    Kenneth Timmerman reported on the breach of Obama’s passport file at the State Department. The contractor who “cauterized” Obama’s passport file was employed by — working for — Obama’s top terrorism and intelligence advisor, John O. Brennan, who concurrently was an advisor to Obama’s campaign.

    http://www.newsmax.com/timmerman/brennan_passport_breach/2009/01/12/170430.html

    If Obama’s passport contained nothing incriminating, why did an employee of Obama’s advisor breach Obama’s passport file?

  134. Anonymouse

    2.

    Not long after the John O. Brennan employee breached Obama’s passport file, the Washington Times reported:

    === A key witness in a federal probe into passport information stolen from the State Department was fatally shot in front of a District [of Columbia] church, the Metropolitan Police Department said yesterday. ===

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2008/apr/19/key-witness-in-passport-fraud-case-fatally-shot/

    Just a coincidence? Smoke thick enough to choke . . . but no fire?

    Or do questions surrounding Harris’s murder bring to mind the questions surrounding Donald Young’s murder?

  135. Civis naturaliter natus

    For you folks who are not up on the Natural Born Citizen (NBC) Issue:

    In Minor Vs. Happert, the Supreme Court states what a NBC is : a NBC is one born on US soil to 2 US citizen parents. In the Elg case it reaffirms this. In the Wong vs. Ark case it uses a new definition of “native born citizen” which is to be a class which encompasses more than just NBCs. In the Schieder case in 1964 it uses NBC as a subset of “native” following the precedent of the Wong case. It also says in the 1964 case that Congress has no authority to expand or restrict the rights of any class of citizen, but that is what they did on Jan 8, 2009, when then accorded the rights of a NBC to a native citizen (assuming O was born in Hawaii). Therefore that act is unconstitutional and he is ineligible. This conclusion is SCOTUS supported. Whereas the contrary thesis, has no SCOTUS support.

    That is why, there is no need for patriots to prove O is ineligible, as there is no evidence that he is a NBC, whether in fact or in law or in SCOTUS’s understanding of the same.

  136. goodtimepolitics

    Looks as if Obama isn’t the only one thats constitutionally-ineligible, so is Hillary what Judicial-watch says!

    http://goodtimepolitics.com/2009/07/09/judicial-watch-asks-court-to-declare-hillary-clinton-constitutionally-ineligible-to-serve-as-secretary-of-state/

  137. JJ…………………………………..

    A number of my wife’s family live in Spencer County,Ky. near Taylorsville. I apologise for being harsh with you. In this blog we see, and read some really moronic crap posted by obots who are only attempting to infiltrate, and otherwise damage the blog. I thoroughly enjoy reading the viewpoints of people who can realistically discuss an issue, and are willing to hear our side of the issue. All to many of these folks from LALA land are unwilling to make it a two way conversation. So you can see why a few of us are perhaps unjustly harsh. A few of us are military veterans, and this too might add to my sometimes brash words. When we see a US destroyer bombed, and 17 of our US Navy personell murdered by Islamic lunatics, and then our alleged POTUS drops all charges against the perpetrators you must understand that those of us who have BEEN there are going to be severely angered. Such behavior by our alleged POTUS causes serious question with respect to his true allegiance.
    In all probably I misunderstood what you said. I speed read, and in so doing it is easy to miss a key word. I hope that you will accept my apology. I invite you to share this blog, and while I don’t speak for others, I look forward to exchanging viewpoints with you in the future.

  138. Another day in the paradaise state of Hopeandchange…….

  139. Less than a year ago not one American would have believed America’s number one job could be stolen by a usurper. Nor would Americans have believed the Republic would be transformed into a dictatorship over night. When America finally realized what Obama and his goons did to us, we rushed with great belief our judicial system would take up the cause and demand the usurper stand up or step down. It’s been like closing the bard door after the horse got out!

    To the horror of “We the people”, we watched helplessly while one case after another was knocked out of the court based–not upon merit, but technicality. The technicality was of the puniest and most highly questionable technicality of any ever invented by a judicial wizardry that has shown its determination to not make a decision on America’s most lethal crisis. The pain and agony of America’s frustrationn with not only the judicial system, but all of our elected officials will lead America to revolution and civil war if the courts persist in their legal bag of tricks of denying America its right to be governed as a Republic instead of a dictatorship.

    If the final definition and decision rests with this actual Supreme Court, I fear, America will be betrayed one more hopeless time. Justice Roberts and the eight others will probably abuse their legal knowledge to convolute the true historic meaning of “Natural born citizen” and or its requirements to be President of the United States and declare Barry Sotoero meets the definition and is therefore legal.

    One more excruciating time the citizens of America will be betrayed. What now, my patriots, now that it will be over!

  140. ANOTHER GIFT FROM THE WONDERFUL STATE OF ILLINOIS-

    I see the Democrat party is up to their oldest trick in their playbook. Gov. Pat Quinn of Illinois(ILL-A-NOISE) is threatening to let 10,000 criminals out because they don’t have enough monry. It’s always the reduction of firemen, police force, and prison guards when they need money by taxing.

    http://cbs2chicago.com/local/prison.stateville.budget.2.1077666.html

  141. A local bakery chain in St. Louis County had it with liberal Congressman Russ Carnahan (D-MO) last Friday after the representative and other Missouri democrats SOLD OUT Missouri workers and small business owners by voting for the Waxman – Markey bill, otherwise known as cap-and-trade.

    READ MORE…………
    http://gatewaypundit.blogspot.com/2009/07/mcarthurs-bakery-story-goes-national.html

  142. Here is the example of the kind of people who can only save this nation. He looks like a”Mr. Smith Goes To Washington”. A former Marine Combat serviceman who served in Iraq.
    http://www.votejessekelly.com/

  143. Civis naturaliter natus

    USApatriots-shout,

    Your analysis seems the utter truth. Either some elected official or judge has to respond to the national crisis, or else they all have to stand together and betray the republic and institute a left wing version of the Iranian theocracy.

    Its accountability or tyranny. They are not giving us any sense of accountability. The pharaseism of the courts is a joke, they swallow camels while straining gnats.

    We are the laughing stock of the world, since we have given the power to destroy the world to a man who refuses even to show his BC, and who never was eligible for the presidency–all the while claiming we are a nation abiding by laws and democratic principles…

  144. Carolyn Bollard

    We the people must stand up or else we will all become slaves to Obame , The man who is trying to destroy our country

  145. They showed up.

  146. USA @ 7:53

    Very well said!

    CNN @ 9:02

    You, too!

    Thank you both!!

  147. I just read Larry Sinclair’s post about problems with Barnes & Nobles web site.

    Apparently B&N has allowed reviews of his for the last month or so, before the book was ever released. It’s the crazy Obots of course. Larry tried to address this by leaving a very well written comment on the B&N web-site. Well guess what happened? B&N removed Larry’s comment and allowed the negative comments to stay. These Obots are leaving comments on a book that they have never read and that is allowed to stay up.

    For all those who want to help get this story out about Buckwheats “real” past … please go to B&N web site and comment. Ask how the heck can they alloow comments from people who have never read the book! Id B&N in the tank too? This is crazy.

    You have to use the books ISB number to find the inforamtion. You can use any name you want … just like th Obots have.

    Even if you have doubts about this story, we have to git from every angle. We need to help get this book out there. It’s another story about the “One” that we don’t know anything about. Another part of his past that stays hidden.

    The ISB # 978-0-578-01387-9

    Again, anything to help get some of the Barry’s past out there. Please help if you can. Please write comments on B&N and if possible, please order the book.

  148. Wow! It’s a little early here! Sorry for all the typos!!

    Reviews of HIS book …
    How the heck can they ALLOW …
    IS B&N …
    to find the INFORMATION …
    just like THE …
    we have to HIT …

    Sorry, just wantwed to clear that up.

    Please help if you can. We need as much info out there as possible.

  149. Patriot Dreamer

    smrstrauss // July 8, 2009 at 9:36 pm

    Not a single lawsuit against Obama was for him to produce documents. Not a single lawsuit asked the court to direct Obama to show the court his birth certificate. All the lawsuits were to stop the election or to stop the certification of the election.

    *************************************

    In Martin v. Lingle, Martin is suing to gain access to Obama’s original typewritten birth certificate under Hawaii’s Uniform Information Practices Act (Hawaii’s equivalent to the federal Freedom Of Information Act or FOIA).

  150. Civis naturaliter natus

    Annoucement from Dr. Orly Taitz:
    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com/blog1/?p=2946

    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com

    An officer has contacted me a few days ago (I will not provide his name), stating that he is about to be deployed to Afghanistan on July the 15th from Fort Benning. We were supposed to file an injunction, a stay of the deployment of this officer to Afghanistan until the eligibility of of Barack Hussein Obama as Commander in Chief is verified. The documents were supposed to be filed in the middle district of Georgia today. Due to personal reasons this officer cannot be the plaintiff at the moment, however all the pleadings in the case are ready to go. If you know any enlisted or officers, who are ready to be deployed, but want to stay their deployment until Obama’s legitimacy for the posittion of Commander in Chief is verified, please have them contact me. As the case is ready, it can be filed within hours.

    Defend Our Freedoms Foundation
    26302 La Paz ste 211
    Mission Viejo CA 92691

    email: dr_taitz@yahoo.com

  151. Patriot Dreamer

    Swine Flu Summit: Govt. Checks on State Readiness
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090709/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/us_swine_flu_1

  152. BY his OWN ADMISSION Obama/Soetoro is not a NATURAL BORN CITIZEN period end of story.

    By His Own Admission he admits that he was Born a British Subject. We are talking 1961 before the feminization of America and the world. At that time men ruled and Citizenship was dominated thru the male. Therefore Obama II was a British Subject just like his daddy no matter where he was born. When Kenya became independent from UK he became a Kenyan just like his daddy. By his own admission he says he was a Kenyan til his Citizen expired at age 21 because he didn’t renew it.

    NOW HERE IS WHERE IT GETS INTERESTING:
    He was a British before becoming Kenyan when he doesn’t renew his Kenyan Citizenship at 21 his Citizenship REVERTS back to British by British LAW. He is a British Citizen, NOT EVEN an AMERICAN CITIZEN never mind NATURAL BORN CITIZEN which would require TWO (2) QUALIFIED AMERICAN CITIZEN PARENTS. He had NEITHER. His mom was a minor and NOT a qualified Citizen required to pass down citizenship and his daddy was a FOREIGN NATIONAL. Even if he was born in the White House he could never be a Natural Born Citizen.

    There are some misconceptions, confusion and intentional misdirections. Up until 1986 in USA there was no anchor baby statute. If a child was born in America it would have the citizenship of the parents. Now with the SABOTAGED and BASTARDIZED “anchor baby” rule babies are allowed to be citizens BUT THEY ARE NOT NATURAL BORN CITIZENS.

    OBAMA II is a British Citizen even if he was born in Kenya or Hawaii.

    This makes him a FRAUD and an USURPER that needs to be detained promptly.

    RISE UP, STAND UP…SPREAD THE WORD.
    This case will be WON in the Real People’s Court the Court of Public Opionion therefore it is our Duty to Present this CASE to more and MORE People till everyone is OUTRAGED AS WE ARE.

  153. I think that there is justification for suspicion when a medical center suddenly comes up with a record that they previously had stated they didn’t have,then are willing to make it public to boot. Stinks like ……………BEEEE OOOO!

  154. zachjonesishome

    Quick update. There is an important update on Dr. Orly Taitz’s blog today! It takes courage to stand up to power.

    From Dr. Orly
    Important

    An officer has contacted me a few days ago (I will not provide his name), stating that he is about to be deployed to Afghanistan on July the 15th from Fort Benning. We were supposed to file an injunction, a stay of the deployment of this officer to Afghanistan until the eligibility of of Barack Hussein Obama as Commander in Chief is verified. The documents were supposed to be filed in the middle district of Georgia today. Due to personal reasons this officer cannot be the plaintiff at the moment, however all the pleadings in the case are ready to go. If you know any enlisted or officers, who are ready to be deployed, but want to stay their deployment until Obama’s legitimacy for the posittion of Commander in Chief is verified, please have them contact me. As the case is ready, it can be filed within hours.

  155. citizenwells

    I posted a review at B&N several months ago in response to the obot attacks
    and lies. They left the obots lies and removed mine even though I knew most of
    what was going in the book.

  156. I have a gut feeling that we are going to have to get the people of this country really steamed so that in 2010 the voters will clean house then, and again in 2012.That is if we can hold everybody together that long. We need to keep all of this alive,and keep it in their faces, and I mean hard in their faces,not just a friendly reminder. Every time they make a mistake we make a “federal case”out of it. Then we keep the really adverse publicity out where it can be seen by all in large type and an easy to read format. We need to beat the MSM at their own sick little game. If everybody works together we will find plenty to ram back down the obots throats; often enough, and nasty enough will eventually get the message across. Humuiliate them at every turn as well just for added incentive.

  157. Patriot Dreamer

    cw, to which book are you referring?

  158. Morning CW,

    I wondered what had happened with B&N. You were going to contact them regarding the removal of your review, but that’s the last I heard.

    Bottom line: I will order the book directly from Sinclair Publishing or Amazon. com. B&N will not get my money.

    Thanks for the update.

  159. Patriot Dreamer

    cw, I assume you’re referring to Larry Sinclair’s book then?

  160. CW…………………………………….

    Speaks volumns doesn’t it. However there are other booksellers. I am sure that there are others who aren’t in Soetoro’s hip pocket. I placed my order for Sinclair’s book the same day I asked you about the address. It might take a pretty strong stomach to read it. We’ll see! As you are aware I am the person with the iron gut!

  161. citizenwells

    Patriot Dreamer.
    Yes

  162. citizenwells

    I did contact B&N.
    They, or at least the people controlling the comments, are in bed
    with BO.

  163. citizenwells

    Larry has sent me a personal copy.
    I am awaiting it.
    I had already read most of the chapters and of course lived
    much of it following the story.

  164. zachjonesishome, DO NOT RECRUIT ACTIVE MILITARY TO QUESTION THE AUTHORITY OF THE CIC! YOU ARE SOLICITING THEM TO COMMIT A CRIME UNDER THE UCMJ! Let Orly do this herself. (I have warned against using active duty military as Plaintiff in any lawsuit attacking the authority of BO qua CIC; Leo has warned against this, too.)

  165. Obanana Dropping Like a Lead Balloon.

    On Jan 21 he was at +28 less tahn 6 months latter he is at -8 that is a DROP of 36 points in less than 6 months, an average of -6 per month.

    Historically has anyone DROPPED as quickly?

    On another issue:
    How can Obanana be believed on ANY ISSUE, if can’t get his story straight of what hospital he was born in or where he met his wife?

  166. venice, thank you for that good news.

  167. Even if you don’t want to order Larry’s Book from B&N … please go over and leave a comment. Ask about how they allowed reviews of a book that wasn’t even released at the time. We need to start attacking the Obots on B&N as well.

    I would love to see Larry’s book rise to the top of the best sellers list! Then, how can the story be ignored. I have followed the story since the beginning. One of the main topics that needs to be addressed is … Why was Larry arrested after his press conference in June 2008 on a bogus charge. He was held in jail for 5 days, not allowed to talk to his attorney or have access to his meds. Guess who was behind his bogus arrest …. Delawares AG – Beau Biden !!! Then after they had to drop the charges – because there was never a reason for his arrest to begin with – Guess what …. Joe Biden is on the ticket for the VP slot.

    Talk about PAY TO PLAY !!!

    Please help out if you can. Post comments and buy the book!

  168. If you go to B&N’s web site. Please use the ISB # 978-0-578-01387-9

    That will get you to the comment section.

    Let’s let the Obots have it over at B&N!

    This is getting crazy how so many companies are in the tank for the Usurper.

    Let’s make noise!!!

  169. I think I’m going to throw up! He is on TV again! UGH!

    Has anyone told him the campaign is over? I have never seen anything like this. This is how it’s done in the Communist Countries … they keep the Prez on TV constantly. Always in your face telling you what they are going to do.

    It’s sick!

  170. He’s spewing his garbage over in Italy. I wish they would stop his plane from landing when he tries to return.

  171. citizenwells

    Here is the article I posted on March 22, 2009 about Barnes & Noble and their treatment
    of Larry Sinclair and me and their allowing the Obots to slander Sinclair.

    https://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2009/03/22/barnes-noble-larry-sinclair-book-barack-obama-and-larry-sinclair-cocaine-sex-lies-and-murder-negative-reviews-barnes-and-noble-bias-reviews-rigged-obama-thugs-obama-camp-boycott-barn/

  172. TO: ILMTB

    Thanks BUT I think a link to B & N would be appropriate.

  173. val,

    That is the dictator way. In your face 24 hours a day, 7 days a week in a V for Vendetta kind of way.

  174. Patriot Dreamer

    [I]V for Vendetta[/I] meets [I]1984[/I].

  175. Patriot Dreamer

    Sorry about the previous posts. I guess those tags don’t work here. I was trying to put those titles in italics.

  176. Patriot Dreamer

    CW, thanks for the link!

  177. Since when does 14 dead out of a population of 60+ million constitute an epidemic???

  178. Patriot Dreamer

    JeffM, when the govt. says so! 😉

  179. Yes lets make Larry’s book a best seller. I hope all made plans for the march in DC 9’/12/ 2009 There is a group to help. Either by plane, bus, car pool whatever it takes get there. Bring America home to OUR Constitution. God Bless America !!!

  180. A few of us are military veterans, and this too might add to my sometimes brash words.
    As is my husband, VietNam, ’69-’71………..

  181. JeffM // July 9, 2009 at 1:36 pm

    Since when does 14 dead out of a population of 60+ million constitute an epidemic???

    60 deaths in Argentina; closing banks!!!
    Let the games begin!!

  182. smrstrauss

    Re: “smrstrauss, how on earth can government lawyers representing Defendant federal departments in a civil suit, provide an Answer to a Complaint that refers to a 3rd party, BO? These lawyers deny that BO was adopted as a child living in a foreign country; and that, he was a practicing Muslim. But they are not representing BO; and he is not a party to this case.”

    Answer: It was a Freedom Of Information Act case brought by Strunk against the US State Department and the Department of Homeland Security. The allegations made were Strunk’s in his case. And the response by the State Department is that where there were allegations in Strunk’s case that Obama was a citizen of Indonesia or adopted in Indonesia or a Muslin the State Department denies the allegations.

    Re: ‘Kenneth Timmerman reported on the breach of Obama’s passport file at the State Department. The contractor who “cauterized” Obama’s passport file was employed by — working for — Obama’s top terrorism and intelligence advisor, John O. Brennan, who concurrently was an advisor to Obama’s campaign.”

    I have read the article you cite and though it shows that someone accessed the file, there is NOTHING in the article that shows that the file was changed. Moreover, we do not know whether the State Department has one file or many. It is unlikely that the physical documents were tampered with. If anything, it would only be the electronic file, and there is no evidence of even this being changed.

    The fact that there was a US passport file indicates that Obama had a US passport. In order to get a US passport one must prove that they are US citizens. This requires either an official birth certificate (It does not have to be the original birth certificate) or a naturalization document. The latter would be on file not merely at the State Department but at the court were naturalization took place. We know that Obama was never naturalized, so the document in the State Department file must be a birth certificate.

    Could a document in the State Department passport file show that Obama traveled to Pakistan on (1) a US passport; (2) an Indonesian passport; (3) a British passport? No. The State Department does not actually copy our passports when we return to the USA, so it does not know where we have been. Entry on British or Indonesian passports are considered entry files, not passport files.

    But, you may ask, if Obama did not have a US passport in 1981, then it is certain that he traveled on a foreign passport? To be sure. But we know that Obama did have a US passport because he returned from Indonesia to Hawaii for high school. Could he have done that on an Indonesian passport? No because the Indonesian government says that he was never a citizen and never had a passport. Also because if he did, he would have had to have a US visa, which would be on file at the US State Department (not under passports but under records of visas).

    Re: “In Minor Vs. Happert, the Supreme Court states what a NBC is : a NBC is one born on US soil to 2 US citizen parents. In the Elg case it reaffirms this. In the Wong vs. Ark case it uses a new definition of “native born citizen” which is to be a class which encompasses more than just NBCs.”

    It did not say that only people who have two US citizen parents and born in the USA are natural born citizens. It said that Minor had two US parents and was born in the USA and was a natural born citizen. Others could have been too.

    The Wong case does use a different definition, and old definition, of Natural Born. It rules that Natural Born merely means born in the USA. The old definition stems from the laws in the colonies in which anyone born in the colony became a citizen. Anyone born in the colony was considered a “Natural Born Subject,” and hence a citizen. And it stems from British common law, in which anyone born in the realm was a “Natural Born Subject.”

    The Wong case was a citizenship case, not a presidential case, but there is nothing to indicate that the court would rule any differently in a presidential case. After all, the term “Natural Born Citizen” in Article II of the Constitution refers to a particular kind of citizenship. It does not refer to anything other than citizenship. So citizenship cases are relevant.

    Article II requires that the president be “natural born,” meaning someone who has not been naturalized. If the Constitution had meant “natural born” to be something other than had been the practice in the colonies before the Revolution, then it would have said so. Or at the very least there would be something in the Federalist Papers or in the writings of one of the framers that would say: “You gotta have two US parents.” But there is nothing. Therefore, the Wong decision is relevant, and it says that Natural Born is a synonym for native born, or born in the USA.

    Re: “Justice Roberts and the eight others will probably abuse their legal knowledge to convolute the true historic meaning of “Natural born citizen”’

    The true historic meaning of Natural Born Citizen means someone who was born in the USA. It stems from the laws in the US colonies and from British common law in which anyone born in the British realm other than the child of a foreign diplomat was considered a Natural Born Subject. If the writers of the Constitution had meant to use the Vattel definition or to require two US parents to make someone “Natural Born,” they would have said so. Otherwise, the common use of the term “Natural Born” applies, and at the time Natural Born referred to someone who was born in the country.

    Re: “He was a British before becoming Kenyan when he doesn’t renew his Kenyan Citizenship at 21 his Citizenship REVERTS back to British by British LAW. He is a British Citizen, NOT EVEN an AMERICAN CITIZEN.”

    Since he was born in Hawaii, he is a Natural Born US citizen.

  183. smrstrauss said:

    “Since he was born in Hawaii, he is a Natural Born US citizen.”

    Sorry, but that is 110% false due to the “or naturalized” clause found in Amendment XIV. By your argument based solely on being born in the U.S., all naturalized citizens would also be “Natural Born”.

    That’s why in Wong vs. Ark they used “Native Born” instead of “Natural Born”. Anything else would have been Unconstitutional because of key components found within Amendment XIV.

  184. off-topic: Mark Stein (on Rush L) announces
    MO carrying a 6,000 dollar alligator clutch purse while in Russia. Now we have the pricey
    tennis shoes at the charity event, the silver
    belt (12-14,000 dollars in Paris), and now
    the alligator purse.

    On this last one: Call PETA

    Do you believe MO has the NERVE to spend
    taxpayer $$ and buy this expensive crap
    while 595,000 people a week in America
    file for unemployment?????
    The Obamas are pigs!!!! I don’t care if this
    post gets removed; this is what I think—they
    are glutinous pigs!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  185. zachjonesishome

    I put the following post up on Larry Sinclair’s site. Good Idea or Bad Idea?

    ZachJonesishome said…

    Hey Larry. Congrats on Book Sales. Maybe you could set up a stand outside the National Press Club on July 27. Barney Frank will be there and so will the press. Good luck with everything! Zach Jones

    Congressman Barney Frank, (D- MASS) and Chairman House Financial Services Committee will address a Luncheon on July 27.

    For copies of this luncheon event, please contact the NPC Archives –
    Phone: 202-662-7598
    E-mail: archives@press.org

  186. Civis naturaliter natus

    Smstrauss,

    You just make it up as you go, don’t you.

    Wong Kim Ark says nothing of the kind.

    And your wishful thinking of saying that Minor Vs. Happersett does not say only these are NBCs, is just the kind of trash a judge would throw out, because it is an unsubstantiated, irrational, arbitrary, gratuitous interpretation.

    Nor does a gratutious assertiong ,used as a major or minor premise in a syllogism make its author look any less stupid. Because in the end what you write is a sophisticated rant, full of lies.

    Wong Kim Ark talks about “native citizens” it does not redefine “natural born citizens”. Read the case for starters…

    In fine, you are using the same obfuscation tactics as HD over at The Right Side of Life.

    I therefore ask CW to ban you from this blog, as you make no honest contribution to what you write, but simply spout lies

  187. smrstrauss, you not only did not answer my question which, by the way, was rhetorical; but, by repeating the Answer provided by government attorneys, you also highlight the flaw in the proceedings highlighted by my initial question. That is, where government lawyers for federal departments are providing an Answer to a question or fact in the original Complaint, and the question or fact is outside the scope of their representation, they have entered the appropriate Answer, “Defendants lack knowledge or information sufficient to form a belief about the truth of the allegations in paragraph ().” But, when responding to statements that include references to the Plaintiff’s allegations that BO is not a NBC, Defendants do provide an Answer. Why? They do not represent him; and he is not a party to this case.

  188. smrstrauss

    Re: “Wong Kim Ark talks about “native citizens” it does not redefine “natural born citizens”. Read the case for starters…”

    I have. And you should. http://supreme.justia.com/us/169/649/case.html

    For example, the case says: “In Minor v. Happersett, Chief Justice Waite, when construing, in behalf of the court, the very provision of the Fourteenth Amendment now in question, said: “The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that.” And he proceeded to resort to the common law as an aid in the construction of this provision. 21 Wall. 88 U. S. 167.’

    And what does the common law say a Natural Born Citizen is?

    “…the established rule that all persons born under British dominion are natural-born subjects.”

    And: “‘Natural-born British subject’ means a British subject who has become a British subject at the moment of his birth.’ ‘Subject to the exceptions hereinafter mentioned, any person who (whatever the nationality of his parents) is born within the British dominions is a natural-born British subject. This rule contains the leading principle of English law on the subject of British nationality.”

    So, what made Wong a US citizen who could not be deported? The fact that he was Natural Born, which the court uses as a synonym for native born.

    At this point I hear a lot of anti-Obama folks say that the Wong case is all wrong.

    Sure, it could be. But do you think that the current US Supreme Court, on which two of the conservative justices had fathers who were born in Italy, would rule that a Natural Born Citizen has to have two US parents at the time of birth?

    It think it is likely that both justices’ fathers were naturalized at the time of birth. But the justices still can think “if my father was naturalized after my birth instead of before it, would that make me a different kind of citizen than I am? Would it really change my allegiance?” And, since they would conclude that the fact that their father was nationalized or not nationalized had no real impact on them, they would conclude that the writers of the constitution did not think so either.

    And, of course, the writers of the Constitution did not think that two US parents were required or else they would have said it. It would have been easy for them to have said it, but they did not, and so they must have been referring to the law at the time, and the law at the time used “Natural Born” as in “Natural Born Subject.”

  189. smrstrauss

    Re: “smrstrauss, you not only did not answer my question which, by the way, was rhetorical; but, by repeating the Answer provided by government attorneys, you also highlight the flaw in the proceedings highlighted by my initial question.”

    I regret not directly answering your rhetorical question. I am not a lawyer so I do not know what the right procedure is for answering a legal complaint that says something like: “Paragraph 22. The earth is flat.”

    It may well be that it is not the right thing to answer: “Regarding Paragraph 22, the allegation that the earth is flat” is not true.

    But, if you do say that it is not true, will the court say “you should not really have said it?”

    The fact in this case is simply that the State Department DID say what I quoted.

    That is a fact. And, as I said before, this means that both the US government and the Indonesian government have now said that Obama was never a citizen of Indonesia.

    To be sure, he lived in Indonesian and loved it. But that is not the same thing as citizenship.

  190. numb nuts wrote

    . Or at the very least there would be something in the Federalist Papers or in the writings of one of the framers that would say: “You gotta have two US parents.” But there is nothing. Therefore, the Wong decision is relevant, and it says that Natural Born is a synonym for native born, or born in the USA.
    >>>why should the FEDERALISTS paper repeat the definition that EVERY ONE knows? The definition of NATURAL BORN citizen was well known at the time. Just like the definition of marriage is well known, between a man and a woman. It’s only these far left wing nut jobs who want to CHANGE definition to suit them whenever the .*&^%$ they want it. Furthermore, a left wing NUT know as PATRICK LEAHY and CHERTOFF , both, repeated the well known definition last year when, mr smoke screen saotao tried to deflect the issue to MCCAIN (knowing fully well he, himself, the messiah had a problem – pointing the figure at others). So they crafted up a resolution, and senate heard it, and during it both prior mentioned parties repeated the well known definition. Man these libs are thick headed moronic loonie toons, aren’t they???
    Don’t even know common sense definitions.

  191. The Obamas are pigs!!!! I don’t care if this
    post gets removed; this is what I think—they
    are glutinous pigs
    ______________

    Maddie,

    They kinda make Bill and Hillary, with all of the skeletens in their closet, start to look wonderful and beautiful. Naah, they both are a complete and utter disgrace to this nation.

  192. numb nuts further wrote

    “if my father was naturalized after my birth instead of before it, would that make me a different kind of citizen than I am? Would it really change my allegiance

    >>>>if your father was hitler, kim II of north korea, ahmamidgetman of Iran, CAstro you damn bet it would make a big f&*&^% ing difference. This was covered in the FEDERALISTS papers you toon. And it was the FEAR of being governed by a tyrant, like these were, that led to the WELL KNOWN definition of natural born citizen to be put into the Consitution. Note furthermore that it DOES NOT SAY US CITIZEN, it DOES NOT SAY NATURALIZED CITIZEN. The requirements for the higher levels of government RISE at each level from CONGRESSMAN, to SENATE, to PRESIDENT. They don’t go freaking BACKWARDS like your discussion states. Get a freaking clue, clueless wonder

  193. citizenwells

    Zach.
    Sounds good to me.

  194. Venice @ 4:12,

    That’s a good one! Thank you for posting.

    Everyone : check it out!

  195. smrstrauss,

    Since we’re discussing “Natural Born Subjects”, what do you think about this passage from the British Nationality Act 1948?:

    “Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth”

    Wouldn’t you say this falls in line with the definition of “Natural Born Subject” you speak of? Recall that back in 1787 the Kind of England would lay claim on you as his “subject” if you were:

    a) Born to a citizen father

    and/or

    b) Born in a colony or country under the claim of British sovereignty

    We’re not the only nation on the planet with citizens or sunjects.

  196. King and Subjects that is…

  197. jbjd said:

    “zachjonesishome, DO NOT RECRUIT ACTIVE MILITARY TO QUESTION THE AUTHORITY OF THE CIC! YOU ARE SOLICITING THEM TO COMMIT A CRIME UNDER THE UCMJ! ”

    Quite the contrary. Every active duty military officer swore an oath to uphold the Constitution first. Ignoring a Constitutional usurpation breaks that very oath, which is a contract between the officer and the United States with FAR GREATER POWER than the UCMJ, i.e. The power of the U.S. CONSTITUTION!

    If anything, officers who wantingly ignore the fact their commander “in mischief” is usurping should receive a court martial for Dereliction of Duty.

    And that’s exactly what they are going to get if they fail to act and Soetoro decides to go to war with the American people. They may even get it sooner should they continue to ignore this while blindly taking orders under an illegal power.

  198. front page drudge
    Obama checking out some ass
    with byline “Mr. President!”
    http://d.yimg.com/a/p/rids/20090709/i/r3356552547.jpg?x=400&y=340&q=85&sig=_dbUibuGcHSmlg8QoaQV7A–


  199. God Bless Russet!!!

  200. Sorry Russert!!

  201. magna carta

    Does anyone know if Rep. Gutierrez voted for Cap’n’tax? i need ideas for sat. morning…he’ss pushing for legalizing every Hispanic in this hemisphere.He’s on a family unification tour in texas.

  202. JeffM, I will not argue with you. I only hope and pray that any member of the military wrestling with this situation seeks competent independent counsel BEFORE acting on any recommendation originating with OT.

  203. I have a question for all of you law experts.

    It is strongly suspected that Stanley Ann Dunham may not have been married to Barack Obama Sr. at the time of Baby Barack’s birth. Even Michelle Obama alluded to this. I was told that the tradition of that era was to omit the father’s name on the birth certificate if the mother was unmarried. If the BC does not designate that Barack Obama Sr. was the father, well then, what is the citizen status of Baby Dunham?

    Also someone supposedly discovered a newspaper announcement of Barack Obama’s birth in Hawaii. I have spent hours upon hours searching newspaper archives for obituaries , burial permit, etc. at our main library so I contend that the microfilm of that newspaper announcement should still be available. Has no one in Honolulu made the effort to locate the microfilm in order to confirm the newspaper announcement is valid?

  204. Patriot Dreamer

    magna carta // July 9, 2009 at 5:48 pm

    Does anyone know if Rep. Gutierrez voted for Cap’n’tax? i need ideas for sat. morning…he’ss pushing for legalizing every Hispanic in this hemisphere.He’s on a family unification tour in texas.
    **************************************

    magna carta,

    Looks to me like he voted for it:

    http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2009/roll477.xml

  205. Civis naturaliter natus

    Smstrauss,

    The citations you provide never object to what I said, they infact confirm it:

    No new definition of NBC is given.

    The legal context, if you remember, concerns US law not British Common Law. And you cannot cite the case which was appealed to SCOTUS to tell us that SCOTUS said it. The lower court said what you said Scotus said. Duh!

    And yes, I believe that conservatives would actually rule in a matter which would make them ineligible to be POTUS, because unlike Obots like you, they are competent and intellectually honest folks…

    Gratis asseritur, gratis negatur. You loose the debate and manifest that Zero has no leg to stand on, and that his claim to be eligibile would have to be discounted as unproven in law…

  206. Civis naturaliter natus

    Jbjd,

    I understand that your ethical training as a Lawyer requires you to counsel your clients in matters which are not according to the codes, criminal, but in this case you are employing a knee jerk professional prudence which was not intended for cases of usurpation, when in fact, such an action by such a hypothetical member of the military, would be the highest patriotism, not a crime.

    In such times as these we need to look to the prudence of our founding fathers.

    If there was a lawyer on the way to Lexington, he surely would have counseld the Minutemen to lay down their arms, or unload their muskets. If they had followed that advice, we would not be discussing the problems with a faux POTUS…Queen Elizabeth would be our monarch…

  207. Cnn, I am not counseling anyone. I am, however, making absolutely clear, I am unwilling to scapegoat anyone because of my priorities. Specifically, I will not lie in order to coerce someone else to give up his rights against self-incrimination, claiming I occupy the high road. I have posted here before, the words of Martin Luther King, Jr., one of my heroes, who counseled, ‘Break an unjust law but do not expect not to suffer the consequences; this is the true expression of patriotism.’ His “Letter from a Birmingham Jail” is worth reading, in its entirety.
    LETTER FROM A BIRMINGHAM JAIL>

  208. Civis naturaliter natus,

    I can see where jbjd is coming from an attorney’s perspective. The goal of the judicial system is to protect individuals and the general good of the people. Defense attorneys are there to keep people out of jail as much as possible.

    However, in this case the general concensus is if no “harm” has been done, no “crime” has been committed and therefore military personnel will go to jail. That is the wrong premise, especially with regards to quo warranto. What good is the Uniform Code of Military Justice when one can’t defend the Constitution while protecting us from an enemy within?

    Our U.S. military is there to protect by fighting enemies while upholding the Constitution. When the highest military office, i.e. the office of the commander in chief, has been usurped it is a serious threat to national security. No doubt this was warned against back in 1868 by John Bingham when he said:

    “May God forbid that the future historian shall record of this day’s proceedings, that by reason of the failure of the legislative power of the people to triumph over the usurpations of an apostate President, the fabric of American empire fell and perished from the earth!…I ask you to consider that we stand this day pleading for the violated majesty of the law, by the graves of half a million of martyred hero-patriots who made death beautiful by the sacrifice of themselves for their country, the Constitution and the laws, and who, by their sublime example, have taught us all to obey the law; that none are above the law…”

  209. Cnn, JeffM, and Everyone,

    Time to restate my position on some critical issues so as to remind cw’s readers where I am coming from.

    1. Like most posters on this blog, I believe BO is not a NBC.
    2. Unlike most posters on this blog, I believe he is the lawful POTUS.

    Thus, I believe he can be removed from office through the process of impeachment when Congress is made aware, he is not a NBC.

    I have developed a few options that can be pursued in order to ascertain whether he is a NBC. In the federal courts, one could bring a Declaratory Judgment case. (I came up with this idea in November 2008, and posted it on my blog.) In the states, one could compel the AG to investigate election fraud related to getting BO’s name on the general election ballot. (Beginning in July 2008, I advised citizens to keep BO off the ballot by contacting their S’s of S, and set up my blog to publish this suggestion. Now that the time for challenging the ballot is past, the investigation belongs with the AG.)

  210. smrstrauss

    Re: “Furthermore, a left wing NUT know as PATRICK LEAHY and CHERTOFF , both, repeated the well known definition last year ”

    No they did not. They added a new definition to Natural Born. The original definition of Natural Born was just what the law was at the time of the Constitution, meaning ONLY people who are born in the USA are eligible.

    Leahey and Chertoff said that the children of two US citizens who were born abroad are also eligible. They did not say that the children of foreigners (one or two) born in the USA are not eligible. And as further clarification, they said that the children who were born abroad of two US parents were eligible. What about the children of two US parents who were born in the USA? Well, they were always eligible because they were born in the USA.

    Re the Federalist Papers not discussing Natural Born. I pointed out that the common definition of Natural Born at the time of the writing of the Constitution was “born in the colony” or “born in the state.” As you say, they did not have to say anything about that definition unless they were changing it. They said nothing. So they did not intend to change it.

  211. For obvious reasons, I feel Soetoro is not the legal president. He was never eligible and Congrass amongst others have committed a treacherous crime against the people of the United States by failing to abide by the supreme law of the land.

    No one in Congrass or the judicial system in this country can plead ignorance to the law. This is no mystery. Congrass has been trying to circumvent the Natural Born Citizen clause for decades through legislature. All one needs to do is read a little to understand the administration is being shielded from the law.

    Make no mistake there will be justice in this matter. The government has a choice:

    A. Abide by the Constitution and remove this man from office through quo warranto

    OR

    B. Suffer under the blade of the people

    This issue won’t go away. When times get worse (and it WILL get much worse) citizens will look for a scape goat to all their problems. That man will be Soetoro and his merry band of thugs. All it takes is one really good reason to yank a man out of his chair to set an example to the rest of the tyrannical clowns in Washington of what not to do.

    Is that really the best option? Removal of usurpers by lynch mob rule? When that happens, the Constitution and life as we know it in this country will change forever.

  212. I have a request. Is anyone proficient in mathematical logic diagrams?

    I’m working on one and am pretty rusty on the relationships.

    What I’m trying to do is map out the Constitution graphically re. citizenship and eligibility.

  213. Leahey and Chertoff said that the children of two US citizens who were born abroad are also eligible. They did not say that the children of foreigners (one or two) born in the USA are not eligible.
    *****
    You are a work of art. Children born in USA to foreigners can only be citizens, not NBC. Ineligible.

    At best Barry had one US parent making him a citizen, not NBC.

    Wonder why you dont get it. It’s simple.

  214. RICHARD…………………………Hi Guy; Your comment regarding the skeletons in the Clinton’s closet is to me a matter of fact. I cite the violent death of RON BROWN in an airplane crash,in which 12 other innocent people died. Hillary had a real problem with Ron Brown. Perhaps a little midnight oil was burned, and a little tinkering with the aircraft was decided upon.HHHHHHHMMMMMMM.
    Then I point to the sudden death of Jim McDougal in his jail cell,after having a mysterious visitornear midnight who arrived at the jail via an unmarked helicopter. Allegedly he was there to administer a lasix shot to McDougal. The strange part of all of this is the fact that Jim McDougal had never had any priscriptions or doctors orders on record for LASIX. He died of a massive heart attack shortly after the injection. No post mortem,or autopsy was ever conducted. Maybe not exactly ……LASIX.
    Then of course there is a gentltman from Rose Law firm who was suspected of having a wee bit more than business relationship with Hillary. He knew far more too much about her so he decided to commit suicide. He shot himself dead in Central park, then got up and threw the weapon over twenty feet. Really a neat trick! That is quite a trick for a DEAD man. In addition to the above incidents over a period of a few years a total of 23 people who were more than casual acquaintances of the Clintons died very mysterious deaths. All had at one point or another been involved in business deals with the Clintons………….take a guess!

  215. bob strauss

    Jonah, I saw an article at “Repubx” that showed, the newspaper article, of the birth announcement, to be a photoshopped image, along with family photos, and high school yearbook photos, they were all phony photoshopped images. It’s all fiction, the whole life story.

  216. bob strauss

    Senate res. 511, can not change the constitution, as to the meaning of NBC. Senate res 511 is non binding, just a bunch of wind from the wind bags in the senate.

  217. Did you see the picture at Drudge Report of the letch Obama? Here’s another picture where Obama checks out another girl at the G8.
    http://gateway.andohs.net/player/?sid=1044&nid=2920

  218. Oldsalt,

    The Clintons have nothing on Obama as it pertains to Skeletons and Murder. We’ve already had quiet a few suspicions.

  219. * * We’ve already had quiet a few suspicious murders.

  220. oldsalt77 and the rest of you Clinton conspiracy theorists:

    The U.S. government spent more than $80 million taxpayer dollars hoping and praying to uncover actionable ‘dirt’ on the Clintons. All they found was semen on a dress.
    80 MILLION DOLLARS LATER, NO DIRT ON CLINTON

  221. Antonin Scalia effectively codified the unique independent power of the Fourth Branch into the hands of all citizens sitting as federal grand jurors. In discussing that power and unique independence granted to the grand jury, the United States Supreme Court, in United States v. Williams, 504 U.S. 36 at 48 (1992), Justice Scalia, delivering the opinion of the court, laid down the law of the land:

    ” ‘[R]ooted in long centuries of Anglo-American history, Hannah v. Larche, 363 U.S. 420, 490 (1960) (Frankfurter, J., concurring in result), the grand jury is mentioned in the Bill of Rights, but not in the body of the Constitution. It has not been textually assigned, therefore, to any of the branches described in the first three Articles. It “‘is a constitutional fixture in its own right.'” United States v. Chanen, 549 F.2d 1306, 1312 (CA9 1977) (quoting Nixon v. Sirica, 159 U.S. App. D.C. 58, 70, n. 54, 487 F.2d 700, 712, n. 54 (1973)), cert. denied, 434 U.S. 825 (1977). ‘ ”

    I submit to you that this passage sets the stage for a revolutionary new context necessary and Constitutionally mandated to “we the people,” THE FOURTH BRANCH of the Government of the United States. Besides, the Legislative, Executive, and Judicial branches, I submit that there is a fourth branch, THE GRAND JURY, and “we the people? when sitting as grand jurors, are, as Scalia quoted in US v. Williams, ” a constitutional fixture in its own right.” Yes, damn it. That is exactly what the grand jury is, and what it was always intended to be.

    Scalia also stated, that “the grand jury is an institution separate from the courts, over whose functioning the courts do not preside.” Id.

    And finally, to seal the deal, Scalia hammered the point home:

    “In fact, the whole theory of its function is that it belongs to no branch of the institutional Government, serving as a kind of buffer or referee between the Government and the people. See Stirone v. United States, 361 U.S. 212, 218 (1960); Hale v. Henkel, 201 U.S. 43, 61 (1906); G. Edwards, The Grand Jury 28-32 (1906). Although the grand jury normally operates, of course, in the courthouse and under judicial auspices, its institutional relationship with the Judicial Branch has traditionally been, so to speak, at arm?s length. Judges’direct involvement in the functioning of the grand jury has generally been confined to the constitutive one of calling the grand jurors together and administering their oaths of office. See United States v. Calandra, 414 U.S. 338, 343 (1974); Fed.Rule Crim.Proc. 6(a). [504 U.S. 36, 48] “

  222. bob strauss,

    Thank you for replying. I suspect that the birth announcement may be a fake however the way to prove it is to look at the microfilm of the Honolulu newspapers. Has anyone done that? It’s easy to do. If I could afford it I’d fly to Hawaii myself and look for it. And while I’m at it, I could search for genealogy of my husband’s relatives who lived there.

    I feel slighted that all these legal experts are articulating and debating the historical and constitutional legal aspects of Obama’s eligibility but not one is able to answer my simple question.

    If the birth certificate does not designate that Barack Obama Sr. was the father what is the citizen status of Baby Dunham?

  223. Jonah

    Big question. If obama had a US father (Davis, Malcolm XX or Bill Ayers) it would be all over, a NBC. A little humor on the subj.

    Im sure if it was a US father, he would have told that long ago. But at the same time, if he is the swift US Constitutional lawyer, why did he give obama sr. as father and open this big bucket of worms.

  224. Don’t get me wrong. I am a birther and proud of it. I knew that Barack Obama would destroy our nation. I just didn’t dream that he would do it so fast.

    I believe that he is definitely hiding something and someone has gone to great lengths to cover his past. Who has the power and wherewithal to do that?

  225. Jonah,
    Here is a link with Obama’s birth announcment shown to be a forgery.
    http://home.att.net/~south.tower/ForgedObama1.htm

  226. Jonah, answers to your questions are all over the internet. For instance, read my template for the military Complaint, wherein you will find such hypotheticals posited

  227. The birth announcements were automatically generated. Both advertisers were sent records of births from the dept of health. In other words if you applied and was given a certification of live birth it was reordered. Those recordings were given to the papers by the dept of health.

  228. magna carta

    I was just thinking two joker dems are trying to woo poor illegals in a totally ramshackle church…whoring for votes.They just passed crap/trade which will hammer these same people in trying to pay their electric bills.I was thinking I need to bullhorn their ears real good with this paradox.any other hypocritical juxtapositions anyone can think of?

  229. magna carta

    I refer to Gene Green and Gutierrez of Il. on their amnesty-pushing tour.

  230. Oldsalt77,

    I think Patterson’s book, “Dereliction Of Duty,” summed up the real Bill, and the real Hillary.

    He was one of the LTC’s that carry the football, (AirForce). He was horrified.

    I just finished a contracting job for an AirForce Colonel that knows him personally, as Patterson’s father was one of the first Generals to command Special Ops at Hurlburt Field, in the panhandle of fla.

    My folks are both retired Naval Communications/intell. ex. Pentagon etc.

    Former F.B.I. Director Louis Freeh’s
    book, “My F.B.I” pretty much puts the Clinton’s were they belong, under the bus.

    I found that Raytheon Corp. developed a counter measure to defeat the Sunburn Missile, I forgot the name, something like ” Ramjet”, with a 95 percent kill rate.

    What concerns me though, is the 200-300 mph plus torpedo’s that both China and the Russian Navy’s have. Not sure what our defense is on those. It has technology called super cavitation.

    I’m not fond of the PLA obviously, neither was one of our great admirals, i think it was Adm. Halsey, who was very forward looking, when he warned about the threat of potential long range cruise missile attacks on our country, he also blasted Pres. Carter for giving back the Panama Canal Zone.

    I read that the Chinese were infusing around 1 Billion into it, not sure why.

  231. Civis naturaliter natus

    One final speculation in interest of the truth.

    I am not an Obot, therefore I am able to entertaing speculations which go counter to my firmer opinions.

    Here is one just specultation.

    I base it on my observation that Obama has a habit of bold mendacity, and that even his Mother and grandparents where known for their stretching of the truth. I also base it on Obama’s race-shame complex, his perceived discrimination and a mixed race unwanted child. Then I consider what we know and don’t know. And this is the speculation or hypothesis I derive therefrom.

    My hypothesis is that Obama’s biological father is not Obama Sr., but a citizen of the USA. His mother slept around, and so did not know who the father of the Child was. The birth certificate original had no father’s name. When the child came out Black, she presumed it was Obama’s child and worked to get him to recognize this. When that failed, she just gave up and left the country. After the Indonesian marriage was going badly, she sent Barry back to the States. The maternal Grandfather may be indicating who the real father of Barry was, in that he encourages Barry to spend time with a local Black man and make friends with him. This seems to be the Grandfather’s attempt at helping the boy connect with his real biological father, who was a US citizen. But this man, a self admitted paedofile sexual abuses the boy, which mixes him up sexually for the rest of his life. This dove tailes with Sinclairs book. So Barry in disgust turns to Obama Senior and psychological determines him to be his father, gets his name put on his BC and COLB. Years later when he wants to be politically active, after admitting openly in the second debate with Alan Keyes that it does not matter he is not a NBC because he is running for the Senate not the POTUS, his supporters, when considering his possible candidacy for POTUS in 2007 ask him to prove that he is NBC. He shows the original BC with this other man named as his father. His supporters agree that he is eligible thus, but counsel him to get the COLB to hide this embarrassing fact, since this other man was a known KGB operative. Then on inaugeration day, well informed of the issues at hand, the Supreme Justice of SCOTUS purposefully messes up the oath, so that it has to be redone in private. This gives Justice Roberts the chance to personally confront Obama about his NBC status, Obama then shows the original BC and Roberts is convinced he really did have 2 citizen parents and was born in the USA. He then administers the oath, but counsels Obama to do what he can to quiet the nation on this point, lest everyone seem to be betraying the Constitution. Barry then writes this letter to the Kapi’olani Medical Center, because he still cannot pyschologically bring himself to recognize the man who raped him to be his father.

    This would mean that Obama is eligible and is a NBC, but that he comes from a very troubled heritage, and we should have pity on him.

    This hypothesis is probable in my opinion; it assumes that there are far more patriots in the country that the contrary thesis, that his father is a Kenyan: but the confusion will remain, until he actually does show the nation his original BC.

  232. truthbetold11

    Pity on who ? ted bundy, jeffery dalmer, Donald Young silenced and his 2 friends, You make compelling points but doesn’t give him a free pass. I had a tough childhood as well but didn’t lie at every instance to be successful. You forgot to mention obama did not attend harvard columbia. no one remembers him. a famous politcal activist at columbia same time as obama said. i never saw him and never would have missed a person like him, he was never in any classes. he simply wasn’t there!

  233. Jonah,

    You raise an interesting question…

    “If the birth certificate does not designate that Barack Obama Sr. was the father what is the citizen status of Baby Dunham?”

    Well, given his purported birth was on August 4, 1961, and that by then Hawaii’s status was a US State he would be classified a US citizen, provided his actual birth father was also a US citizen too. The mystery here may well be who is the actual birth father. Was/is he a NBC?

    Nevertheless, according to Mr. Obama himself his father was Obama, Sr., an individual who was a British subject–thus the major reason why Obama is not an NBC.

    If as you point out that Mr. Obama’s birth-certificate may counter his own assertions, then why would his own mother, his maternal grand-parents and Obama himself go to such depths of secrecy/deception to conceal the truth, while simontaneously promoting the Barack Obama Sr. “cover-story”?

    They cannot have their cake and eat it too–it’s either they are lying about the actual birth father, or continue to promote the “cover-story’, which still does not equate into a NBC…

    Do I personally care one way or another who Obama’s actual birth-father is? No… However, where it concerns my fellow American citizens and our sacred Constitution, Yes, I do. All of us here and on other sites have read/heard much about Hawaii, Kenya, and also Vancouver, BC, Canada as possible birth places regarding Mr. Obama… in the final analysis it may be more important to turn more of our focus upon just who the actual birth father truly is… and I’ve said enough about this highly sensitive subject because discussing Where he was born is highly speculative enough, but daring to discuss Who the actual father was/is may be a slippery-slope indeed.

  234. Civis,

    Let’s hope he’s not in collusion with the hard core Wahhabi Islamic doctrine, and tries to usher in the Twelfth Imam.

    That’s enough, don’t want to be responsible for anyone losing sleep tonight.

  235. Civis naturaliter natus // July 9, 2009 at 11:39 pm

    Hello CNN, you put forth a very intersting hypothesis.

    I’ve qualified some of my posts both here and elsewhere by stating ‘IF Soetoro, Sr. IS his real birth father….’ That doubt has always stuck with me.

    Could this possibly be the ‘personal and political embarrassment’ his henchmen talked about when he refused to release his records?

    To my way of thinking, he was a biracial, bicultural bastard child who was rejected time and again, and bounced around from parent to grandparent. It’s east to see how the Narcissism developed.

    I have always thought that the Oath was botched on purpose but believed that it was done because Roberts knew Barry was illegit.

    Theories abound and we may never get all the answers but I will say this: I may be able to drum up some pity for his pathetic existence *after* he’s put out of office. Not before.

    Eagerly awaiting the delivery of Larry Sinclair’s book.

  236. CNN,

    DEFRAUDING THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and using FORGERY and FRAUD to win an election CANNOT STAND no matter the reason. WE AMERICANS DONT STAND FOR LIARS. IF SCOTUS did that TEHY WOUDL BE ACCOMPLICES IN FRAUD, DECEPTION and PERVERSION OF THE PEOPLE”S VOTE.

    Some say his DADY is MACOLM X and he looks just like him.
    LOOK HERE:
    http://israelinsider.ning.com/profiles/blogs/is-obama-the-secret-son-of?id=2018399%3ABlogPost%3A12595

    Whatever reason LYING and FRAUD/FORGERY to FOOL the Voters and STEAL an ELECTION is CRIMINAL.

  237. Civis,

    Those who are not Obots don’t need to clarify their status. They also don’t need to underscore their ability to hold views contrary to their own.

  238. ONE THING IS FOR CERTAIN Obanana had a Vendetta against his MOM and Grandmom that raised him and PRAISED his family in Kenya that abandoned him.

    Obama has No pics as an adult with his MOM.
    Obama doesn’t have any pics with his grandma newer than 25 yrs. There are no pics of Grandma and Obama’s BLACK kids.
    His “ROCK” was NEVER allowed to see his children.

    There was a HUGE problem in this family. I believe that DUNHAM was not his BIRTH FAMILY but took over for someone else’s birth mother.

    His Grandma didn’t DIE of Natural Causes and furtehr investiagtion needs to be done there. She was creamated INSTEAD of being buried with her Husband. WHY? Was she poisoned? She had justbeen released from teh Hospital if she was that sick the Hospital wouldn’t release her.

    How come no hospital birth pics? Or pics when he was a baby?

    MUCH is being covered up. I believe Frank Marshall Davis told Obama the truth and that is when the Vendetta Started. After that he didn’t spend much time or associated with the Family that Raised Him.

    He doesn’t know which hospital he was born in because NOBODY KNOWS. The babay Obama was Delivered to the Dunhams for safe keeping in 1961 when he was already about 2 yrs old. taht explains no Hospital Brith pics or baby pics.

    Obama may have been found in a wicker basket floating down the river. Maybe hs is MOSES and NOT MESSIAH or maybe he is ALL THINGS. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE he is NOT NATURAL BORN CITIZEN and is a LIAR and a FRAUD that used LIES, FRAUD and FORGERY to fool American Voters and steal the Presidency.

  239. PRWH, Rocknee, Kim and Greg,
    Thank you for replying.

    I am very aware of the fake announcements. I’m just thinking like a genealogist, similar to the thinking of a GOOD journalist. You want to get further confirmation. If you want to prove the announcements are fake, you go to the library or wherever the Hawaii newspaper archives are kept, you load the microfilm, you find the birth notices for the day that the announcements were supposed to have appeared. But the birth of Barrack Obama is nowhere to be found. AHA! We have verification that someone went to great lengths to perpetuate a fraud.

    JBJD,
    Where I can I find your template for the military Complaint? Does it answer my question, “If the birth certificate does not designate that Barack Obama Sr. was the father what is the citizen status of Baby Dunham? “ It’s a very simple question but I guess none of the legal eagles who frequent this site are willing to give me a simple answer. Personally, IF he was born in Hawaii and no father is designated on the BC, I think that the baby’s citizenship is that of the mother. However subsequent legal actions such as name change, adoption, etc. noted on the original BC may have rendered BO ineligible to be president.

    BTW Schools are sticklers about providing birth certificates before enrollment. IF BO was Barack Dunham at birth then Stanley Ann would have had to legally change his name in order to be enrolled in school with the name Barack Obama. http://www4.hawaii.gov/StateFormsFiles/form-c.pdf

  240. smrstrauss (July 9, 2009 at 2:21 pm) said:

    === Re: ‘Kenneth Timmerman reported on the breach of Obama’s passport file at the State Department. The contractor who “cauterized” Obama’s passport file was employed by — working for — Obama’s top terrorism and intelligence advisor, John O. Brennan, who concurrently was an advisor to Obama’s campaign.”

    I have read the article you cite and though it shows that someone accessed the file, there is NOTHING in the article that shows that the file was changed. Moreover, we do not know whether the State Department has one file or many. It is unlikely that the physical documents were tampered with. If anything, it would only be the electronic file, and there is no evidence of even this being changed.

    The fact that there was a US passport file indicates that Obama had a US passport. In order to get a US passport one must prove that they are US citizens. This requires either an official birth certificate (It does not have to be the original birth certificate) or a naturalization document. The latter would be on file not merely at the State Department but at the court were naturalization took place. We know that Obama was never naturalized, so the document in the State Department file must be a birth certificate.

    . . . ===

    – – – – – – – – – –

    smrstrauss, I’m not going to take the time to respond to all your assumptions and speculations, but instead will ask you two questions:

    1. If Obama’s passport on file in the State Department was a US passport — which would be in Obama’s favor, not militate against him — what would be the MOTIVE for an employee of Obama’s own top terrorism and intelligence advisor to break into his passport file?

    2. Lt. Quarles Harris Jr. had been cooperating with the Feds investigating the breach of Obama’s passport file in the State Department. Harris was in fact a key witness. Early in that investigation, someone fatally shot Harris. If the murderer’s motive centered around Obama’s passport, and if it was indeed a US passport, what was the murderer’s motive for shooting Harris dead?

    No evidence has been published that connects the murder of Harris with the breach of Obama’s passport file.

    However, the breach itself is established fact, and that breach must have been motivated. For what logical reason would Obama’s intelligence advisor want to view or steal or destroy Obama’s passport if it was a US passport . . . and Brennan could merely ask Obama for the information it contained?

  241. What’s the worst case scenario, that were all a bunch of fish in a barrel, while Obama is quietly destroying our nation ? Intentionally committing treason on a massive scale? Trying to send us all to the abyss ?

    I hope not, but with the innumerable negative factual stuff, on this loose cannon on the deck, and i believe a lot of good folks feel similar, anything is possible with BO.

    Farrakhan accidentally being his next door neighbor in Chicago, cough cough.

  242. Just a technical question. How in the world did my ordinary line of hyphens
    – – – – – – – – – –
    morph into one composed of hyphens and en dashes?

    Experiment (line of en dashes and line of em dashes) to see if they morph into assorted sizes:

    – – – – – – – – – –
    — — — — — — — — — —

  243. Jonah, have you ever opened a graphic, say a JPEG, in Microsoft word? It’s really easy — just select in Word’s menu ‘Open Any File’ (or its equivalent), and then open the graphic. The graphic will appear as text.

    If you want to go on a thought-provoking safari, find different copies of the Hawaiian birth announcement (some will have yellow highlighting or a spotlight effect) and some of Obama’s yearbook pages.

    When you open those in Word, look for the ID “Ducky” and the word “Adobe.” Some of your JPEGs will have that pair and others will not. But you will find several that do, which suggests that an Obot Photoshopped some of the originals.

  244. Civis naturaliter natus

    I have read that Obama visited his Mom on 2 occasions. 2007 and 2009. Maybe that is when he had her filed papers to have his BC amended, as to the name of the father.

    As for “pity on him” I do not mean that in the sense of giving him a pass on any crime or deception he has committed, but in the deeper Christian sense of compassion for a troubled man.

    I can see that in race politics it is worth much more to have an African Father than a KGB paedofile…so another speculation is that Obama does not care who is father is, unless it suits his self advancement, and has claimed at various times various fathers, enabled as he is by his troubled history and duplicitous mother….

  245. strauss wrote
    “Re: “Furthermore, a left wing NUT know as PATRICK LEAHY and CHERTOFF , both, repeated the well known definition last year ”

    No they did not. They added a new definition to Natural Born.
    >>>Wrong again, they just repeated the well known definition of natural born citizen in a simple sentence

    “nature born citizen means that both of your parents are US citizens” Chertoff.

    “that is my understanding of the definition”. Sen Leahy.

    Every thing else you said has nothing to do with adding or changing anything. Get a freaking clue.

  246. cnn,

    It’s getting late, so you’re tired, right? Maybe you mean BO visited his grandmother, Madelyn Dunham in 2007 and 2009. His mother, Stanley Ann Dunham Obama Soetoro, died in 1995.

    PS IF BO was born Barack Dunham, the name change to Obama would have taken place as a child, probably before enrolling in school.

  247. sns strauss wrote:
    Leahey and Chertoff said that the children of two US citizens who were born abroad are also eligible. They did not say that the children of foreigners (one or two) born in the USA are not eligible. And as further clarification, they said that the children who were born abroad of two US parents were eligible. What about the children of two US parents who were born in the USA? Well, they were always eligible because they were born in the USA.

    not intend to change it.
    >>>the above has nothing to do with natural born, and it’s a resolution and what you say is your opinion. Or , if not, what the resolution said . And the resolution is unconstitutional in my opinion as it is not per the Constitution and it would not be upheld in courts. McCain was not a natural born citizen regardless of what OBama’s resolution thinks a natural born citizen is. He was not born in US nor in US territory, he was born on a base in a foreign nation. The court would have to rule on that one, as it is not covered by the common definition of natural born. In other words, it doesn’t change the definition of natural born citizen. It provides an exeption, not a definition change , if ruled Constituional.

    Just because “they did not say” doesn’t mean what they “did not say” is allowed. The resolution did not address that issue specifically because obama knew not to go there when he co-authored that resolution so as not to bring
    unwanted attention on himself. Remember this was a smoke screen, an illegal one, to draw attention away from his own issues in this area.

  248. da verg,

    There are millions of federal documents accessible on the internet that may prove that natural born and native born are considered the same.

  249. Civis naturaliter natus

    Jonah,

    yes, I meant to say his grandmother, not mother, ofcourse…

  250. TO: smrtrauss and Anonymouse,

    PASSPORT:

    Could it be that instead of TAKING anything from the file they were instead INSERTING something into the Record of the file or INSERTING a whole NEW FILE because none was there before.

    From all that I have read Obanana didn’t have a US passport till he got a DIPLOMATS passport when he becomea US Senator.
    NOTE: Diplomats passport there is no scrutiny.

  251. Civis naturaliter natus

    The passport look-see remains one unexplained link in a series of unexplained events, that seem unlikely to point to anything else but a problem with Obama’s eligibility and loyalties…

  252. Tough Questioning of Judge Sotomayor: An Obligation, Not An Option

    http://www.eagleforum.org/court_watch/alerts/2009/july09/07-09-09.html

  253. The coming “San Andreas Fault” –

    http://www.lucianne.com/thread/?artnum=481035

  254. Here is an excellent article by Alan Keyes this morning:

    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=103521

    Dereliction of Duty doesn’t just apply politicians, it applies to everyone.

  255. Good morning all,

    As I quickly glanced over the recent comments , a lot saying that BO, Sr. may not be his bio father and it’s possible that he does have a NBC as a father. BUT, isn’t the fact that he posted a BC on his web-site listing BO, Sr as his dad some type of felony? If it comes out that his dad is Marshall, etc…. we still have a fake BC on a web site. Wouldn’t that be a problem for BO ? Isn’t that a crime in itself?

  256. Civis naturaliter natus

    First Val, he did not post it, Factcheck posted it. Second it was a Certification of Live Birth, not a Birth Certificate, third, if he had it ammended after 2007, and IF that image on the web was of a real 2007 image, then he could argue that the other organization published the wrong one. That image, which everyone cites to support him, has no legal value whatsoever; its as if the Encylocopedia Britanican posted your birth certificate Val, with false info, and you said nothing about it; certainly you could not be held at fault, and certainly they could say that they had no intention of wrong doing, but were inadvertent about checking the document. That’s the slick kind of game played in Cook Country IL.

  257. CNN, “When the baby came out black she assumed Obama Sr was the daddy?” They were allegedly married be fore the birth.

    Anonymouse. Every Senator is “given” a US diplomatic passport when they become a US Senator.

  258. Jonah

    I have a little question regarding the Obama Certification of Live Birth which was posted on the website. It has a 2007 date that shows thru from the reverse side which was never shown on the website. Could this have actually been a replacement for one that was issued much earlier? If he travelled using an American passport then he most likely obtained the passport using a certification of live birth. I have heard, and read that this level of BC is all that is necessaty for a lot of applications….including obtaining a passport.

  259. The divorce papers say that Stanley and Obama Sr. had a child……

    http://www.oilforimmigration.org/facts/?p=653

  260. Richard…………………… The specialised Sonobouy technology which I mentioned was developed then quickly put away for some unknown reason. The technology was proven to work well. In thinking about the possible reasons for the sudden retirement of it could extend into cost, or personal conflict between some of our upper brass (systems costers). By the way the system was secretly tested extensively in the old Nuclear test site in the Marshall Islands. Someone I know in our US Submarine service was involved with the tests. The best that I can offer is that it was a version of the subs hearing capability which was redisgned to fit into a sonobouy that could be airdropped. The package would sink to a predesignated depth then it’s anchoring device would release and it would procced to the bottom and anchor the entire unit. It had super hearing capability for extremely long distances under water, and an almost similar capabability to an unknown altitude above the water. This would have been taylor made for the radar dead zone. I hasten to add that I am sure that you are aware of the newest radar which is NOW capabable of seeing down to the surface. I am told that it really isn’t tha sort of RADAR that us older sea dogs understand. I am not sure if I even want to know about it. When I served I was aboard a Sumner class can.(2250) built right at the close of WW2. I arrived aboard when she was recommissioned early into the Korean war.

  261. Re: Children born in USA to foreigners can only be citizens, not NBC. Ineligible.

    Children born in the USA to foreigners are NBC. The original meaning of Natural Born is “born in the USA.” That is the way that the law was in the colonies before the Constitution was written.

    And that is why such prominent conservative Senators who are also lawyers as Orren Hatch and Lindsay Graham say that a Natural Born Citizen is simply one who was born in the USA:

    Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

    “Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

    Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

    “What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

  262. Re: “From all that I have read Obanana didn’t have a US passport till he got a DIPLOMATS passport when he becomea US Senator.”

    That is total baloney. His mother took him to Indonesia. On what? An Indonesian passport? Okay, he could have traveled on her passport, but that still required a change in her passport and a birth certificate of the child proving that he was born in the USA.

    Then he came back from Indonesia to study in Hawaii. He could not have used his mother’s passport then. So what did he use? An Indonesian passport? That would have required a US visa, and there would be a record of visas issued (not in the passport file but in the file of visas granted in Indonesia). The State Department was under the Republicans until January 20. They had plenty of time to look into the file of visas granted in Indonesia.

    In addition, we have these fundamental facts. Indonesia has said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen (so no Indonesian passport). The US State Department has said that Obama was never an Indonesian citizen.

  263. Anonymouse @ July 8, 2009 at 8:54 pm

    The Fight the Smears web site is down, but not completely. It seems that whatever Obot had the responsibility of scrubbing the site overlooked one detail. They forgot to ask google not to cache the site. 😀 Now lets see how long the pages remain in googles cache.

    http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:xnG_Zsb96cYJ:www.fightthesmears.com/articles/5/birthcertificate+fightthesmears.com/&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=safari

  264. The link below starts five google search pages worth of cached Fight the Smears pages. For the ones in PDF format, choose “View as HTML” to read the cached page.

    http://www.google.com/search?q=site:fightthesmears.com+fightthesmears.com/&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en-us&start=0&sa=N

  265. Patriot Dreamer

    I predict the cache will be scrubbed by Monday night at the latest. Anyone want to start a pool?

  266. Re: 1. If Obama’s passport on file in the State Department was a US passport — which would be in Obama’s favor, not militate against him — what would be the MOTIVE for an employee of Obama’s own top terrorism and intelligence advisor to break into his passport file?

    There is absolutely no evidence that he changed the file or that he COULD change the file. So, what was the motive? To find out something. He looked into Obama’s file AND McCain’s.

    Illegal, of course, to even look into the files, but you cannot assume that there was a change to the file. There are no reports that either file were changed or that they could be changed. And the accounts seem to refer only to electronic files. The original paper files cannot have been touched.

    In any case, would Obama’s US passport file show that he was an Indonesian? No. Would it show that he traveled to a particular place? No. The US does not record where you have gone to when you return to the USA.

    It is the file of visas issued in Indonesia that might show something, but so far it hasn’t.

  267. Patriot Dreamer

    I’d much rather be swimming in a pool. lol I’m so thoroughly disgusted with all the cover up and scrubbing of sites and info that reveals anything questionable about that frauds life.

  268. Has anyone heard or read the story about the “real” Barack Obama jr., died in a plane crash, and whoever the guy, in the whitehouse is, has stolen his identity? I read it somewhere, and didn’t give it a second look, but the way things have gone, since the usurper, made it into office, the more I wonder. What is the truth?

  269. Patriot Dreamer

    Lurker,

    😀

  270. Lurker // July 10, 2009 at 11:16 am

    Lurker, I’m good for the Mai Tais. After 5 weeks of rain in the Northeast, I need a little ‘water wing therapy’ in an enclosed environment!

  271. Often there is more in what is not said than in what is said. The screaming silence of msm, Congress, and the judicial system re: Obama’s eligibility issue are good examples of my statement. Lately I have been remembering another great, big, noisy dirty little secret out of Chicago that has gone silently loud. How come Blagovitch is still runnning around “free as a bird” and we hear nothing from atttorney Fitzgerald. My wasn’t Fitsgeral the man of the day–strutting like a Bantam rooster fighting for justice? The silence is creepy. Do they think if they sweep that too under the rug, the public will forget to check there when cleaning house? Wasn’t Blago supposed to be tried on the charges that got him terminated as governor? (Selling a Senate seat). Was Blago paid to not blab? So much more is said in what is not said or done!

  272. Patriot Dreamer

    usapatriots-shout,

    Federal prosecutors seem to be working on Blago’s aides, first in order to work out deals with them to testify against Blago. Check this out:

    First Guilty Plea in ex-Governor Blagojevich Case
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090708/pl_nm/us_blagojevich_staffer_1

  273. numbnuts wrote

    The US does not record where you have gone to when you return to the USA.

    >>no but the passport does !! Doh!
    i doubt he even had a US passport, which you are right it would not exist , and therefore there would be no record of it. Caught in your trap of words.

  274. jonah wrote

    da verg,

    There are millions of federal documents accessible on the internet that may prove that natural born and native born are considered the same.

    >>>what is your point here? The constitution clearly says natural born, not native born. And the internet? The internet is filled with ignorant sluts who don’t even know the definition of marriage, yet alone, natural born. Remind me again , what line does the constitution reference the word “internet”?

  275. jonah
    millions? perhaps you mean
    billions and billions, you related
    to dr. sagan?

  276. Re: >>no but the passport does !! Doh!

    No but the passport is NOT in the file. Doh!

  277. Re: “i doubt he even had a US passport, which you are right it would not exist ,.”

    He had a US passport to travel from Indonesia to Hawaii. Unless he used a US passport, there would have to be a record of his receiving a US visa while in Indonesia. That would be a US government record that the Republicans could have accessed before November, and even now it could be accessed, if it existed. But there is no such record.

    Obama traveled to the USA from Indonesia on a US passport.

  278. citizenwells

    ** 2 new posts up **

    Wells

  279. bob strauss // July 10, 2009 at 11:25 am

    Has anyone heard or read the story about the “real” Barack Obama jr., died in a plane crash, and whoever the guy, in the whitehouse is, has stolen his identity? I read it somewhere, and didn’t give it a second look, but the way things have gone, since the usurper, made it into office, the more I wonder. What is the truth?

    *******************************************

    No, Mr. Strauss, cannot say I’ve personally read about this story, but would regard such a story (not you, of course) as yet another purposely planted “chase down a rabbit hole” ruse to divert attention from getting any closer to the genuine truth about anything relative to Obama.

    What we know for sure/certain about Obama is he is shrouded in mystery. Where was he was born? When was he born? We know of course that Obama, Sr, wasn’t a NBC…however, should Obama, Sr. only turns out to be a “cover-story”, well, Is/was the actual birth father a NBC?

    If not, Why is it important to conceal his actual identity and citizenship status at Obama’s birth? Lots of questions surrounding Obama, thus, so many planted stories to chase I guess.

  280. I feel slighted that all these legal experts are articulating and debating the historical and constitutional legal aspects of Obama’s eligibility but not one is able to answer my simple question

    ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

    Or the simple issue that has been overlooked…….when, if ever, the real BC is shown, wouldn’t the certification numbers, (the blacked out part)need to be in numerical order?? Isn’t that the system universally??

    If *****was born directly before 7:24, and ***** was born immedialtely after 7:24……….the numbers must correlate…………1225676, 1225677, 1225678?????

    Is this simple fact overlooked as the real reason the BC can’t be examined?? The fake number is out of order??

  281. RICHARD…………………………Hi Guy; Your comment regarding the skeletons in the Clinton’s closet is to me a matter of fact. I cite the violent death of RON BROWN in an airplane crash,in which 12 other innocent people died. Hillary had a real problem with Ron Brown. Perhaps a little midnight oil was burned, and a little tinkering with the aircraft was decided upon.HHHHHHHMMMMMMM.
    It was suggested EMP and many other plane casualties not explained have this theory also.

  282. Civis naturaliter natus

    Smrstrauss,

    Are anyone you qutoe, members of SCOTUS?

    If they are not members of SCOTUS, are they supports of McCain or Obama’s candidacy?

    Don’t you think they understood their answers would support one or the other?

    As for Bingham, we can safely assumed he is not a supporter of either, in both senses of “supporter of either”, 1) he did not know them therefore could not form an opinion, 2) his views of NBC would exclude both as eligible…

  283. Civis naturaliter natus

    Greg Goss,

    ” They were allegedly married be fore the birth.”

    Yes I am familiar with the allegation. But we don’t know if they began dating before or after the conception of the Child. Obama senior’s unwillingness to live with Dunham after the birth, suggests he did not recognize the Child; but the divorce papers say he did; without him to interview, we do not know whether he did or not; it could be that Dunham’s lawyers put him in a position where it would cost money to contest the paternity, and he merely wanted the cheep way out.

    I do not for a moment want to defend my speculation; I merely put it out there to get folks thinking about alternate possible explanations for O’s strange behavior before and after the election regarding his past, his BC and his response to eligibility issues.

    If I were O’s adviser, and he had no eligibility issues, I would council complete disclosure, because the political risk has now become too great to remain silent, and it is a distraction to his governance and moral authority as president. It would show that he is truthful in calling for transparency and that he is straightforward with the American people.

    Why his advisers are not given this advice, or why he is not heeding it, either means that he does have problems with his eligibility or that he is very naive politically…

  284. Patriot Dreamer

    Cnn,

    BO’s advisors probably figure that:

    (1) If they ignore it for long enough, then it will go away on its own or the process will take so long that it won’t matter, or

    (2) If they ignore it and ridicule the “birthers” for long enough, then they figure that the birthers will have lost all credibility as a kooky fringe conspiracy group (see Saul Alinsky’s “Rules for Radicals”).

    That’s just a couple of ideas as to why they’re ignoring it.

  285. Re: “If they are not members of SCOTUS, are they supports of McCain or Obama’s candidacy?”

    Both Graham and Hatch supported McCain.

    Here is what they wrote:

    Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC), said:

    “Every child born in the United States is a natural-born United States citizen except for the children of diplomats.” (December 11, 2008 letter to constituent)

    Senator Orrin G. Hatch (R-UT), said:

    “What is a natural born citizen? Clearly, someone born within the United States or one of its territories is a natural born citizen.” (Senate Judiciary Committee hearing hearing on OCTOBER 5, 2004)

    Neither were members of the Supreme Court, but the Supreme Court has ruled in the Wong Kim Ark case that a natural born citizen is a synonym to a native-born citizen.

  286. Jacqlyn Smith

    jbjd // July 9, 2009 at 10:05 pm

    oldsalt77 and the rest of you Clinton conspiracy theorists:

    The U.S. government spent more than $80 million taxpayer dollars hoping and praying to uncover actionable ‘dirt’ on the Clintons. All they found was semen on a dress.

    **************************************************

    jbjd—-That is because the Clintons have been able to silence everyone that could come forward with real evidence….much like the THUG presently in our White House…I hope they all burn in HELL!!!

  287. Lurker, Patriot Dreamer- the site fightthesmears.org has been scrubbed-good thing the cache has been saved.

  288. TO: CNN

    “First Val, he did not post it, Factcheck posted it. Second it was a Certification of Live Birth, not a Birth Certificate, third, if he had it ammended after 2007, and IF that image on the web was of a real 2007 image, then he could argue that the other organization published the wrong one. ”

    I was out fishing all day so I don’t knwo if anyone replied to this yet or not.

    OBAMA is the one that POSTED this Pic of his COLB he is the one RESPONSIBLE. It was on his Fight the Smears site and they said it was his Birth Certificate. Also the other sites that posted it posted it as coming from OBAMA so there he is responsible as well.
    The FactCheck.org follow up with all the pics is according to them done at Obama’s headquarters with his permission so he too is RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE.

    NO to mention that NO ONE has access to get the COLB but Obama. Many have tried with Andy Martin with lawsuits with no luck.

    You saying Obanana is not responsible for that FRAUDULENT COLB being online is BS. HE is very responsible for it.

  289. Civis naturaliter natus

    Peter Francesco,

    Thank you for correcting me.

    And may Our Lady of Fatima bless you for contribs on these threads…

  290. just a comment that I have known there
    have been US passports granted without BC or
    naturalization papers through the “legal”
    channels. no further comment on that.

  291. anonymouse,

    Yes I saw the debunking the document video:

    Haven’t figured out how to do it myself in Vista. Guess I’ll have to ask a kid, They know how to do it all. If evolution is valid, our future children will be born with a mouse in their hand!

  292. oldsalt77 // July 10, 2009 at 9:32 am
    Jonah
    I have a little question regarding the Obama Certification of Live Birth which was posted on the website. It has a 2007 date that shows thru from the reverse side which was never shown on the website. Could this have actually been a replacement for one that was issued much earlier?
    ===========================================

    The factchect.org posted an image of the COLB showing the date, JUN 6 2007.
    http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

    I can tell you that I’ve compared my familiy’s’ 2008 COLBs with factcheck.org’s Obama COLB and there are a few discrepancies. First, my documents state CERTIFICATE OF LIVE BIRTH not CERTIFICATION OF LIVE BIRTH. The ermbossed seal is slightly different. However, mine indicate on the bottom left corner that the form itself is revised (Rev 10/08).

    The significance of the date on the back of Obama’s document is that the Hawaii Dept of Health can look through their records on or about that date, June 6, 2007, to see if a certificate was issued for Barrack Obama’s COLB and who made the request. My receipt also had a receipt number. I have a few photos of my documents if you want me to email them to you.

  293. • da verg // July 10, 2009 at 12:13 pm
    jonah wrote
    da verg,
    There are millions of federal documents accessible on the internet that may prove that natural born and native born are considered the same.
    >>>what is your point here? The constitution clearly says natural born, not native born. And the internet? The internet is filled with ignorant sluts who don’t even know the definition of marriage, yet alone, natural born. Remind me again , what line does the constitution reference the word “internet”?
    • da verg // July 10, 2009 at 12:14 pm
    jonah
    millions? perhaps you mean
    billions and billions, you related
    to dr. sagan?

    DA VERG………………………..
    Why the sarcasm? Why the rudeness? What do you mean by “The internet is filled with ignorant sluts who don’t even know the definition of marriage, yet”?

    Have I ever been disrespectful to you?

    I can direct you to a database that contains an index and images of approximately 24 million federal registrations that includes citizenship , either natural born/native born, OR naturalized OR alien.

    But I won’t.

  294. Well, since according to bots Hawaii has already released a COLB which Obama posted, then why not ask their vital stats for a duplicate?
    I mean, it’s nothing new, nothing that Obama hasn’t already displayed, just the same document right?

    Knowing how this all goes, though…logic never matters. They will still cite privacy even though it’s already out there, they know full well they never issued the crap that’s out there.

  295. Civis naturaliter natus

    bho boo,

    Now that “fight the smears disappears” (love the rhyme!) can we even say that Obama is asserting the infamous COLB to be genuine. I mean in legalise, when you pull the evidence, you are admitting it is not trustworthy, or at least damaging to your client, NO?

    So I see no longer any reason for patriots to consider themselves obligated to admit its existence…let alone veracity…

  296. The Presentment hearings were used ubiquitously before 1946 when errant rule makers of the Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure unconstitutionally ruled that they are “Obsolete”. Of Course, as long as the 5th Amendment remains viable, CITIZEN EMPANELLED non-judicial Presentment hearings have the power of Law regardless of what the FRCrimP claims. The FBI’s recent forage into unlawfulness regarding Hillary Clinton’s email scandal should trigger a Citizens Presentment hearing in DC.

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