Ohio races undecided, Absentee and provisional ballots create nightmare, To count or not to count that is the question, Military votes counted?

Ohio races undecided, Absentee and provisional ballots create nightmare, To count or not to count that is the question, Military votes counted?

“Late last night Congressman West maintained a district wide lead of nearly 2000 votes until the St. Lucie County Supervisor of Elections “recounted” thousands of early ballots. Following that “recount” Congressman West trailed by 2,400 votes. In addition, there were numerous other disturbing irregularities reported at polls across St. Lucie County including the doors to polling places being locked when the polls closed in direct violation of Florida law, thereby preventing the public from witnessing the procedures used to tabulate results. The St. Lucie County Supervisor of Elections office clearly ignored proper rules and procedures, and the scene at the Supervisor’s office last night could only be described as complete chaos. Given the hostility and demonstrated incompetence of the St. Lucie County Supervisor of Elections, we believe it is critical that a full hand recount of the ballots take place in St. Lucie County. We will continue to fight to ensure every vote is counted properly and fairly, and accordingly we will pursue all legal means necessary.”…Allen West campaign

“Freedom is the freedom to say that two plus two make four. If that is granted, all else follows.”…George Orwell, “1984″

“It’s not who votes that counts, it’s who counts the votes”…Joseph Stalin

Ballots are still being counted across the country. Fraud and poor procedures have occurred in Florida and elsewhere. Does anyone have a warm and fuzzy feeling about the elections? I do not.

Massive numbers of mail in or absentee ballots have been or could have been sent. As of Monday, November 19, 2012, over 1.5 million ballots in California had not been processed. 580,071 mail in, 923,768 provisional and 56,293 other.

Due to a court ruling delay, Ohio just began counting provisional ballots, apparently a large number of ballots created by the confusion of mailing so many absentee ballots.

From the Royalton Post November 20, 2012.

“Ohio House District 7 race awaiting provisional ballots count”

“As famed New York Yankee Yogi Berra once said, “It’ ain’t over until it’s over.” And the Ohio House District 7 race between Mike Dovilla (R-Berea) and Matt Patten (D-Strongsville) is far from over.

The Nov. 6 election results had Dovilla winning the election with 50.3 percent (27,091 votes) to Patten’s 49.7 percent (26,786 votes), a difference of only 305 votes.

There are 1,930 provisional ballots to be counted, however. The breakdown of these as yet to be counted votes looks like this: Berea – 356; North Royalton – 488; Olmsted Falls – 146; Olmsted Township – 242 and Strongsville – 698.

Provisional ballots were to have begun to be counted on Nov. 16 or 10 days after Election Day. Final results were to have been released on Nov. 27 at the Cuyahoga County Board of Elections certification meeting.

The Board of Elections, as of this writing, was still in the process of determining which provisional ballots are valid.

Ohio Secretary of State Jon Husted issued a directive to local election officials on Nov. 2 that gave them new instructions to reject certain provisional ballots from voters who did not properly fill out the portion of the ballot application that asks for a form of identification.

U.S. District Judge Algenon Marbley issued a scathing 17-page ruling stating the directive issued on Nov. 2 was “a flagrant violation of a state elections law” that could disenfranchise voters.

Provisional ballots are given to voters whose eligibility is in question at the polls. Voters have up to 10 days after the election to prove their eligibility in order to ensure that their vote is counted.

Throughout his ruling, Marbley criticized the provisional ballot application Husted designed for the presidential election. Marbley questioned whether the poor drafting was “by design or accident.”

Marbley said the form illegally shifted the responsibility for recording identification information on the provisional ballot application from the poll worker to the voter. He also said the form makes it difficult for election officials to determine if erroneous applications are the fault of the poll worker or the voter.

Husted spokesman Matt McClellan said the Secretary of State would appeal the ruling “because it allows potentially fraudulent votes to be counted. By eliminating the ID requirement on provisional ballots, the ruling is contrary to Ohio law and undermines the integrity of the election.”

Pending any further legal actions, the Board of Elections was to meet on Nov. 20 (past The Post Newspapers deadline) to determine the validity and invalidity of all provisional ballots and review any provisional ballots recommended by the Board of Elections staff for review.

Following the Nov. 20 meeting Board meeting, all provisional voter envelopes were to be opened and the ballots reviewed to ensure the voter cast a ballot in the correct precinct.

In addition to the provisional ballots, there are 175 vote by mail ballots in District 7 that have not been counted. This takes the total of uncounted ballots over to the 2,105 mark when added to the provisionals.

During the 10 days following Election Day, the Board of Elections could receive vote by mail ballots that could be accepted and counted if the return envelopes were postmarked by Nov. 5.

“You would need about 58 percent of everything remaining to flip this in the other direction,” Dovilla said. “He’ll (Patten) pick up a few hundred and I’ll pick up a few hundred I would guess. I think the margin will remain the same. We’re cautiously optimistic that the verdict will hold.”

There is a chance that determination of final numbers could be delayed into December. Even after all the provisional votes are counted, there could very well be an automatic recount of the votes if the difference between the votes cast for the two candidates is equal to or less than one quarter of one percent of the total votes in the race. Either candidate can request a recount if the difference is equal to or less than one half of one percent.

“This is wide open. I’m sure that both of us agree it would be nice to have this done with,” Patten said. “You have to put your life on hold because you just don’t know. I think he and I are both learning more than we ever wanted to about provisionals.””


From NewsMax November 1, 2012.

“Ohio Voting Count ‘Nightmare’ Looms”

“With the presidential election expected to hinge on Ohio, the state’s former secretary of state, GOP stalwart Kenneth Blackwell, is warning that a little-known change in the Buckeye State’s absentee-ballot process could lead to a “nightmare scenario.”

And that scenario could force the entire country to wait 10 days after the election to find out who will be the next president of the United States. It’s a complicated situation, to say the least, but one that could have a far-reaching impact on the Nov. 6 election process.

For the first time in the key swing state’s history, Blackwell says, virtually all Ohio voters this year were mailed an application for an absentee ballot. In previous elections, most Ohio voters had to request an application for an absentee ballot to receive one.

The concern is that thousands of Ohio voters may complete the absentee-ballot application and receive an absentee ballot, but not bother to complete and mail in the ballot.

Anyone who is sent an absentee ballot — including those who do not complete it and mail it in — and later shows up at the polls on Election Day to cast their ballot in person will be instructed to instead complete a provisional ballot.

And under Ohio election law, provisional ballots cannot be opened until 10 days after an election.

“I would just say that this is a potential nightmare-in-waiting,” says Blackwell.

Blackwell believes that could result in an unprecedented number of provisional ballots being filed – some 250,000 or more. Such a large number of ballots being held, presumably under armed guard, for 10 days until they can be opened, would bring to mind the historic 2000 post-election battle in Florida. That recount was marked by ballot disputes — and inevitably, lawsuits.

“You’re talking about craziness for 10 days,” Blackwell tells Newsmax in an exclusive interview. “They won’t even be opened to be counted for 10 days.”
According to a report by Barry M. Horstman of the Cincinnati Enquirer, absentee-ballot applications were mailed to 6.9 million of Ohio’s 7.8 million registered voters.

As of Oct. 26, Ohio election officials had mailed out 1.3 absentee ballots. Of those absentee ballots, 950,000 had been completed and mailed back in.
That leaves some 350,000 absentee ballots that had been requested and sent to voters, but had not yet been received.

Ohio voters who requested an absentee ballot, but did not complete it and mail it back in, will not be allowed to vote normally.

Explains Blackwell: “So they go to the polls and say, ‘I want my ballot.’ And [poll workers] say, ‘Oh, we see you applied for an absentee ballot.’ The voter says, ‘Oh, I changed my mind.’ And they say, ‘That’s well and good, but we have to guarantee that you don’t vote twice. You have to fill out a provisional ballot.’”

Provisional ballots are used whenever someone shows up at the polls whose eligibility to vote cannot be immediately verified. Their name may not show up on the voter rolls, for example.

Rather than turn them away, state election officials typically have those individuals indicate their voting preference with a provisional ballot. Once their eligibility to vote has been established, the vote can be counted.

The use of provisional ballots is intended to prevent any voter from casting one ballot by mail, and then a second ballot at the polling place.

Ohio’s current secretary of state, Republican Jon Husted, pushed for the absentee-ballot applications to go out to all voters, according to Blackwell.
In previous Ohio elections, a few counties would automatically send out absentee-ballot applications to all their residents, while the vast majority of counties would not. Husted sought to make the absentee ballot process uniform across Ohio’s 88 counties.

In a news release, Husted said the new system would “help reduce the chance of long lines at the polls during the presidential election, and voters in smaller counties will have the same conveniences as voters in larger counties.”

No one can say how many absentee ballots will remain outstanding as of Election Day. Ohio voters have until Nov. 3 to request an absentee ballot. Election officials will accept and count absentee ballots as long as they are postmarked by Nov. 5, the day before the election.

Ordinarily, the number of provisional ballots outstanding in Ohio probably would be inconsequential. In 2008, according to the Enquirer, only about 70,000 were actually cast.

But uncertainly over perhaps a quarter-million votes would be a serious concern in Ohio, given the historically close margins of victory there.

Democrat Jimmy Carter carried Ohio by only about 11,000 votes over incumbent Republican President Gerald Ford in 1976. In 2004, GOP President George W. Bush carried the state by 118,775 votes over Democratic Sen. John Kerry, in a controversial finish that occurred during Blackwell’s tenure as secretary of state.

As of Wednesday, the RealClearPolitics average of polls in Ohio showed President Barack Obama leading GOP presidential nominee Mitt Romney by 2.4 percent. That site, and many others, rate the contest as a toss-up.

No Republican has ever won the presidency without carrying Ohio. The Obama campaign has rested its re-election hopes on a firewall strategy that hinges on winning Ohio’s 18 Electoral College votes. Doing so would greatly complicate Romney’s path to garnering the 270 Electoral College votes needed to capture the presidency.

If the voter turnout in Ohio matches the 2008 level of 67 percent, some 5,226,000 votes would be cast. Under that scenario, 250,000 provisional ballots would amount to 4.8 percent of the entire vote — well over the current difference between the two candidates, according to RealClearPolitics poll average.

Other than Horstman’s report in the Cincinnati Enquirer, Ohio’s provisional ballot issue has largely flown under the radar of the national political press.

Blackwell tells Newsmax that given the uncertainty over how voters may respond to the widespread, unsolicited invitation to obtain an absentee ballot, the potential for a 10-day delay “is a major concern in terms of the management of a process that is perceived as being free, fair, and as unsuspenseful as possible.”

Hamilton County Board of Elections director Amy Searcy echoes Blackwell’s concern. She told the Enquirer that a 10-day lag while the entire nation waited for Ohio to declare who won its election “would be called my nightmare scenario.”

Matt McClellan, press secretary for the Ohio Secretary of State’s office, tells Newsmax it will be late Tuesday or early Wednesday morning before a final tally is available of how many absentee provisional ballots have been cast.
He confirmed that 2012 marks the first election year in which virtually all registered voters in Ohio were sent absentee ballot applications.

He said the department has not made any projections on how that change might impact absentee and provisional ballot voting trends. However, he emphasized that the vote-counting process in Ohio will be reliable, secure, and in accord with the state’s election laws.

“I disagree with the Enquirer story,” said McClellan. “There is not a nightmare scenario for Ohio.

“If the margin is too close, and we’re just not able to tell definitely at that point, that doesn’t mean anything bad has happened in Ohio. It means the process is proceeding as is required under law. So, will we have outstanding absentees and provisional ballots? Yes. We don’t know how many yet; we won’t know until Election Day.”

McClellan emphasized that every legal ballot will be counted.

Blackwell agrees there is no way to know yet how many provisional ballots Ohio will ultimately have to count, or if the nation might have a 10-day cliffhanger before the winner of the presidential election is known.

But he adds, “It is not an unreasonable scenario to plan against, given that this is the first time in the history of the state that every registered voter got mailed – unrequested – an absentee ballot [application].””


I am still concerned about our overseas military personnel being disenfranchised. I will continue to evaluate vote counts, especially those from military absentee ballots.

34 responses to “Ohio races undecided, Absentee and provisional ballots create nightmare, To count or not to count that is the question, Military votes counted?

  1. Ah yes…..the truth about human nature and how easily it can be manipulated by the “prince” of evil:

    If I Were the Devil by PAUL HARVEY


  2. http://stg.do/9LDc

    If I Were the Devil by PAUL HARVEY

  3. Mr. Bill, et al.
    One of my bigger concerns is insuring that overseas military have a decent chance to vote &
    that their votes are counted. I hope that Allen West is paying attention to this.
    This is bigger than West or any candidate.

  4. Mr. Bill(ms. helga)

    CW – I can’t imagine they didn’t check on the sent-in military votes for Fl.
    Maybe slightly OT, but I am seeing nothing but Rubio on Fox & MSNBC and talking about him being the next up&comer. IS HE A NBC??. I have heard both answers. Which is it?. We don’t need to go all through this again. Can we nail this one down NOW?
    Remember what the 500 pound parrot said – “Polly wants a cracker NOW!!”

  5. http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505263_162-57552328/sources-dni-cut-al-qaeda-reference-from-benghazi-talking-points-cia-fbi-signed-off/

    Sources: DNI cut “al Qaeda” reference from Benghazi talking points, and CIA, FBI signed off

    (CBS News) WASHINGTON – CBS News has learned that the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (DNI) cut specific references to “al Qaeda” and “terrorism” from the unclassified talking points given to Ambassador Susan Rice on the Benghazi consulate attack – with the agreement of the CIA and FBI. The White House or State Department did not make those changes.

    This is a horrible detailed description of our current controlled intelligence community. This doesn’t begin to give any reason for the emphasis on any silly video alone as being the sole reason for such terroristic assaults on our own property and the murders of those left to die. Read the whole thing! Clapper deeply involved. If you don’t believe that this was forced by the WH I’ve got lots of bridges for sale too!

    And then there’s also this:

    Senate bill rewrite lets feds read your e-mail without warrants


    (absolute power corrupts absolutely)

  6. Does anyone else think it is peculiar that the main emphasis so far on the Benghazi tragedy is “who changed the talking points?” I understand the need to get to the bottom of that particular issue, but in the meantime the clock is running (Hillary’s delayed testimony until Dec. is facilitating that).

    As time passes memories fade, new crises take precedence, and we still haven’t moved on to the main question, imho, : WHO gave the order to “stand down”?

    If the pResident told them to “do whatever necessary for the safety of the U.S. citizens”, as he has said, then why wasn’t this directive carried out? According to informed people, this directive would be in writing. Panetta, SOD, has said something to the effect that he and the other generals didn’t have the necessary info on the ground to do anything.

    So, the BIG QUESTION is: What exact order did the pResident give, if any?
    The next one: Why did the military behave the way it did, making no attempt to save American lives during the seven-hour period?

    I’m afraid that this will all be old news quickly and get shoved under the rug in the light of Congress’ concentration on “avoiding” the fiscal cliff.

  7. oldsailor80 | November 20, 2012 at 3:37 am |

    I am truly humbled by your last two posts. My apologies for such a pointed analytical response. I am grateful of your service. You, my Father, and millions of patriots, since the conception of our Constitutional Republic are the reason I am able to post my thoughts, with the knowledge, belief, and concepts, that my rights come God and not the state Thank You!!!

    Over the last five years I have refocused my observations on the dismantling of the rule of law and equal protection provided by the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. My entire life I never was in an environment of government dependency. Earliest memories of creating actions to earn and obtain the things I desired, were the example my parents created. Being self employed my entire life I admire, understand, and empathize with your entrepreneurship.

    My first political trauma occurred when I was 7 years old, President Kennedy’s met his fate. That moment in time burned into my memory as everyone in my little world was stunned shocked in paralyzing fear and pain. To this day that onion is still being pealed back, a strong case for the dots being connected to current events. How Ugly is it? Not anywhere near as Ugly as its going to get as we continue to exposed the truth. When one considers the coverup is far far greater then the act, its easy to conclude it is just the tip of the iceberg. (Who has the authority to order the Secret Service to stand down?)

    My next political trauma occurred September 11, 2001. For 30 years my parents had an antique business in the antique district in Manhattan. They had friends, customers and associates that worked in the twin towers, I had been in those building many times, even had been on some of my first dinner date’s at the Windows on the World Revolving Restaurant yes, at the very very top of the world…. or so I thought at the time.

    My latest political trauma is now been continuous for the last 5 years. As the dots connect from the first political trauma thru, September 11, 2001 threading thru Obama’s run for election the first time (absolute disbelief factually saying the first time) thru September 11, 2012 into November 6, 2012 to this afternoon these last five years are tempering me for the next step.

    Enough about me already!

    You, CW, those patriots on this blog, other good blogs, and web sites are currently the front line trenches. Its the current line of defense. Admiral Chester William Nimitz who said very little, stated that the 3 factors for victory are 1) The Economy of Force 2) The Element of Surprise 3) The Element of Luck, with all 3 there still is no guarantee of victory.

    Again truly humbled by all of you, for what has been done, are doing, and knowing what needs to be done.

    Gods speed


  8. “It’s official, we can’t criticize any black Democrat without it being racist.”

    “Dem Rep. James Clyburn: GOP Letter Criticizing Susan Rice Uses Racial “Code Words”…”

    Some info on James Clyburn from jbjd’s site:
    © 2010 jbjd

    “I had wanted to write an article featuring the role played by House Majority Whip James E. Clyburn (D-SC) in orchestrating the race-baiting campaign that catapulted Obama post Nevada and New Hampshire away from becoming just another also-ran in the Democratic Party’s primary and caucus contests; and into position to steal the nomination.”


    © 2010 jbjd

    “James E. Clyburn (D-SC) is the only Congressman the citizens of the Palmetto State’s Sixth Congressional District have known since a contentious re-apportionment created the oddly shaped majority minority district in 1992.

    Well, Mr. Clyburn, may I just point out, if the “Sixth…has suffered from decades of neglect,” the last 2 (two) of those “decades” have been at the hands of your “leadership and vision.” Indeed, the I-95 corridor, contorted to retain its majority minority status, just became known as the Corridor of Shame under your watch.”


    “Corridor of Shame: Neglect of South Carolina’s Rural Schools”

  9. cabbyaz | November 20, 2012 at 12:06 pm |

    I’m afraid that this will all be old news quickly and get shoved under the rug in the light of Congress’ concentration on “avoiding” the fiscal cliff.

    Of all the things the Usurper has perpetrated, THIS ONE (BENGHAZI) CANNOT be swept under the rug! That would be tragic! If Fox and others drop this… then I drop them! I will cancel my satellite!

    While I’m at it, I’ll cancel my congressmen, my senators and my WHOLE DAMN GOVERNMENT!

  10. A solution to be tried if people had the guts to do it would simply for the so called “rich” (iow, job creators) to pull a union thug tactic…. only this would be legitimate considering today’s circumstances of unconstitutional governing….and simply “go on strike” and not pay taxes. How many and for how long could such “folks” be locked up? Gov. would have to close down since their sugardaddies would disappear and so the feds would not be able to control things and go after all the non-taxpayers because they wouldn’t be getting paid to do so! People would learn the hard way just who is responsible for making this country go and who is seeing to it that they have jobs and get paid. Probably there would then be no food on grocery store shelves; no food stamps for the non-food shelves; producing of all kinds would have to shut down….no gas….no deliveries, no police or firemen to come to their rescue, etc. Why should those upon whom these sniveling free loaders in gov. positions who like to exempt themselves for all the hardships they mandate over others and who, btw, are paid themselves by such, be the ones held hostage by the ones they support?? It has to stop somewhere….this is what the teapartiers were supposed to stand for…gov. get off the backs of the creators and producers. So what if they are hated for a while….the dems see to it that they are even hated when they pay for everything and everybody else anyway so what does that matter. It would be a good education esp. for the youth who have been taught to order up what they want because their cheesy gov. will simply order those who work hard to pay for it. They want chaos…give it to them but then they won’t have the means to hire their thugs to control everyone because they won’t be able to pay them…and they don’t do anything without payback. Amen!

  11. Interested Bystander

    Hey All,

    I know this isn’t going to be popular here, but it needs to be posted.

    I believe that West conceding only shows that HE is in on the scheme.

    Like Petraeus, and the rest of the “Government Class”.

    It’s sickening to me, they just rub our face in it.

    The voter fraud is so obvious, and the media says nothing.

    What is the goal, that’s my question?

    If their goal is to make everyone “equal”, it is doomed to failure. Just look at history, that goal has been a failure 100% of the time.

  12. Mr. Bill(ms. helga)

    GORDO | November 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    “It’s official, we can’t criticize any black Democrat without it being racist.”

    Gordo – I read this today in one of the comments concerning Allen West conceding his election to Murphy.

    “About time this 6 foot toilet bowl brush get out!!”

    PS – CW watching Rubio being touted all day on MSNBC & Fox as being the next Republican. Is he NBC or NOT. WE CAN’T GO THROUGH AGAIN!

  13. Heard his father,Rubio’s, was not a citizen until he was 4 yrs old,therefore no ,he is not NBC.Think it is in hi book about his life
    I even called hi office once and said h can’t run,because h is not a NBC

  14. The progressives are disgusting,zero class,progressive another word for communist,just sounds better,or socialist.To think there are people who are soo beyond reasonable thinking,amazing,a sad day for our wonderful America

  15. Mr. Bill(ms. helga)

    Truuth Now – So now what?? I can’t believe the Repubs would get into a situation like this. WHAT’S THE GAME?? ARE ELECTIONS NOTHING MORE THAN A MONEY CHURNING RACKET???

    “Fool me once shame on me etc,etc!!”

  16. Massive voter fraud in Fla,trailer park 900 votes,only 7 registered
    http://www.orlytaitzesq.com. Don’t get why nothing’s being done to save America,like Orlytaitzesq says funny how someone not born here is trying to save America,we need to support Orlytaitzesq ,most of the rest are saps,pathetic ???

  17. Interested Bystander

    GORDO | November 20, 2012 at 1:59 pm |
    “It’s official, we can’t criticize any black Democrat without it being racist.”

    My reply is that when you have TRUTH on your side:

    Sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will NEVER harm me.

    Call me what you want, Obama, Holder and Rice are all three lying, cheating, corrupt, and disgusting human beings.

    Of course there’s a whole bunch more also (Pelosi and Reid come to mind), but we’ll start with those three.

    Does that make me a racist or someone who tells the TRUTH?

    In the world of UP is DOWN………………….

  18. You’ve all heard of the ‘three Rs’: Reading, wRiting and aRithmetic.

    We now have the ‘two Rs’: Racism and Ridicule (Alinsky rule #5).

    The combination is very effective. It’s a major component of their PLAN.

  19. “Marco Rubio was born a Cuban Citizen via his parents.”

    “… See PDF copy of the Sep 1975 Petition for Naturalization for Mario Rubio, father of Senator Marco Rubio. Marco was born in May 1971, more than 4 years before his father Mario elected to become a U.S. Citizen and renounced his Cuban citizenship in Nov 1975.”


  20. Not sure if you’ve heard about this but my local radio station had a little something on it today and wish it could have been covered a lot more extensively. This is truly outrageous. A Dr. called in and said this was just repetitive since the info. is already known. Sooooo, what else are they collecting blood samples for? My guess is to get everyone’s DNA into a gvmt. computer bank for either research or ……. something worse? What if we all say “NO” to this invasion of our privacy? Apparently this is one more thing in Obamacare that none of us were aware of. Are we all just laboratory rats now?


  21. Where do people go today to get away from religious persecution since the U.S. is not longer a choice?

    Is this really happening in my country? The best people being forced to commit murder….against conscience…..for an increase in the world’s culture of death.

    Regime Alert: Judge Rules Hobby Lobby Must Pay for Abortion Drugs & Birth Control


    A federal judge ruled Christian-owned Hobby Lobby has no rights and the company must pay for abortifacient drugs and birth control.
    LifeNews reported:

    A federal judge has issued a ruling siding with the Obama administration saying that it has the right to force Hobby Lobby, a Christian-owned and run company, to pay for drugs for women that may cause abortions.

    The privately held retail chain with more than 500 arts and crafts stores in 41 states filed a lawsuit against the Obama administration over its HHS mandate. The company says it would face $1.3 million in fines on a daily basis starting in January if it fails to comply with the mandate, which requires religious employers to pay for or refer women for abortion-cause drugs that violate their conscience or religious beliefs.


    “By being required to make a choice between sacrificing our faith or paying millions of dollars in fines, we essentially must choose which poison pill to swallow,” said David Green, Hobby Lobby CEO and founder. “We simply cannot abandon our religious beliefs to comply with this mandate.”

    However, U.S. District Judge Joe Heaton issued a ruling late Monday rejecting Hobby Lobby’s request to block the mandate. Judge Heaton said that the company doesn’t qualify for an exemption because it is not a church or religious group.

  22. Hot off the press, this article gives more detail and explanation:

    30 years later, consent decree violation claims still threaten


  23. thistle | November 20, 2012 at 7:49 pm |

    Not sure if you’ve heard about this but my local radio station had a little something on it today and wish it could have been covered a lot more extensively. This is truly outrageous. A Dr. called in and said this was just repetitive since the info. is already known. Sooooo, what else are they collecting blood samples for? My guess is to get everyone’s DNA into a gvmt. computer bank for either research or ……. something worse? What if we all say “NO” to this invasion of our privacy? Apparently this is one more thing in Obamacare that none of us were aware of. Are we all just laboratory rats now?
    My husband’s medical care is at VA.
    They sent a brochure several pages long; I submitted all information and the first page, separate from the brochure, stated there would be only one visit at an office lasting only 20 minutes; long enough to only take a blood sample.
    Oh, hell, no. I tore it is shreds.
    Be aware, veterans; the questions I have been quizzing him (he has beginning stages of dementia..:-( )with the answers about are all there.
    Scale of depression you feel.
    Scale of sadness.
    Lots of depression questions…..:-(
    But, as yet, no questions of gun ownership—but it’s coming.

  24. cabbyaz | November 20, 2012 at 10:12 pm |

    Good to get more info! I cannot believe that we only leaned about that agreement this election. No wonder that the Democrats were so brazen in their cheating over the years.

  25. Meant learned, sorry

  26. Air Force Brat!

    Cabby — very disturbing article. But since the DNC breaks any law it doesn’t like, perhaps the Republicans should do the same — which they would do if they weren’t one or more of the Big Three (cowardly, clueless, or complicit). Kind of seems like there’s no point in even bothering to go vote. Then again, that’s exactly how the Administration WANTS us to feel. Maybe another orderly 9/12 rally, attended by a few million people, wouldn’t be a bad idea.

    Have almost reached the point of not giving a damn about the minority voters. Screw it. I’ll be damned if a bunch of parasites who spit out a new welfare baby every year because they don’t feel like working will rule over me!

  27. Ladyhawke and Air Force Brat,
    Another added dimension – although not illegal, it is something we should know:

    Democrats push to redeploy Obama’s voter database
    If you voted this election season, President Obama almost certainly has a file on you. His vast campaign database includes information on voters’ magazine subscriptions, car registrations, housing values and hunting licenses, along with scores estimating how likely they were to cast ballots for his reelection.
    And although the election is over, Obama’s database is just getting started.

    It seems that the Dems have been concentrating on getting vast amounts of info on potential voters in order to better target their efforts to gain votes. It is a very elaborate technology and intended to be used by them in future elections.

    It will be an ongoing operation even between elections, and is far above anything the Repubs have. “Catchup” will be hard, if not impossible.

    We have come so far away from prior elections. I would just say that if the Dems had worthy candidates, the voters would make their choices and all of this hi-tech stuff would be unnecessary. What are we coming to?

  28. jayjay……..you are right. The question on guns is coming and, in fact, is already here. My mother in law, who is 93, got a case of pneumonia earlier this year and had to be rushed to the hospital emergency room. My husband (her son) and sister in law (her daughter) were answering the questions asked at the front desk during the filling out of the paperwork and one of the questions was whether my mother in law owned any guns. My husband and his sister just looked at each other in shock and then asked what that had to do with their mom having pneumonia. The gal at the desk seemed to understand their shock, but said she had to ask it. She also admitted that it does have to do with O’care. And like the questions on your husband’s paperwork, they also asked a whole bunch of questions about depression, etc. too. There soon will be no privacy left as we know O’care has nothing to do with quality health care but rather everything to do with Controlling every aspect of our lives.

  29. thistle – I hope they answered no she does not have any guns.

  30. Hi Zach……..yes, they answered ‘no’ because she really doesn’t own any.

  31. It’s pretty obvious, by now that they (the government) are attempting to tie guns and depression together. I have also been asked the same questions verbally by the VA at a follow-up for surgery. I asked straight out what the reason for these questions was and was told they HAD to ask them as they didn’t want anyone to “fall through the cracks” so to speak. I asked the tech whether or not they were aware that this administration was the most hostile toward veterans of any in history and was attempting to target veterans as potential terrorists. My answer was that I had no answer to an obviously vague question that could be interpreted any of many different ways, and that the veterans in this country have a contract with the government concerning their health care that does not contain language that would affect their constitutional rights….
    I also added that I have been under the care of the VA for rmany years now and why was it under this particular administration that all this particularly invasive questioning was occurring. Are they deliberately trying to disable a particular segment of the population that they consider potentially dangerous to them? Of course they are. This administration sees veterans simply as used drones which, as they are of limited further use to them, to be cast aside, but first they must be deactivated.

  32. It has always been my feeling that if Obama was indeed born to this country, raised by others who were born to this country, and was imbued with a conscious love and appreciation for this country, he wouldn’t act the way he does. It is not about simply winning or losing an election. It is about supporting, respecting, and embracing that which has supported and provided for you. Not your individual political agendas. That is what a natural-born citizen looks like. If it doesn’t look like that, then it most likely isn’t that.


    Terry Jeffrey
    Nov 21, 2012

    “What the Obama administration argues is that it has the authority to tell Americans they can no longer practice Catholicism. What the Obama administration argues is that it can order Catholics to [sin against God and] act against their faith [in God, and order them to take action to sin against and disobey Almighty God’s forever living, infinitely powerful spiritual Commandments & Laws that establish, rule, reign and order Earth, Heaven and Forever Life in the Heaven Forever Life – the Kingdom Of God in Eternity.]


    “Many bishops have spoken out clearly and courageously against Obama’s attack on religious freedom.

    Bishop David Zubik of Pittsburgh wrote in his diocesan newspaper: “The Obama administration has just told the Catholics of the United States, ‘To Hell with you!'”

    Archbishop Timothy Broglio, who leads the Catholic Archdiocese for the Military Services, wrote a letter to be read by chaplains serving Sunday masses attended by U.S. military forces. Obama’s mandate, the archbishop said, is “a blow to a freedom that you have fought to defend and for which you have seen your buddies fall in battle.”

    Broglio and many other bishops declared: “We cannot — we will not — comply with this unjust law.”

    In his encyclical letter Evangelium Vitae, Pope John Paul II cited St. Thomas Aquinas in explaining the Catholic teaching on unjust laws.

    “This is the clear teaching of Saint Thomas Aquinas, who writes that ‘human law is law inasmuch as it is in conformity with right reason and thus derives from the eternal law,” said the pope. “‘But when a law is contrary to reason, it is called an unjust law; but in this case it ceases to be a law and becomes instead an act of violence.'”

    “To refuse to take part in committing an injustice is not only a moral duty,” said the pope, “it is also a basic human right.”

    […] Obama has launched the greatest attack on religious liberty in the history of the United States. He hopes to divide Catholics from their church and American law from truth and justice.

    There is no middle ground here. The church is right, the bishops are right, freedom of conscience is an alienable right, and Obama is more wrong about the meaning of liberty than any American president has ever been.

    Continue Reading Here:


    * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


    Carol Platt Liebau
    Nov 20, 2012 11:36 AM EST


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