Obama DC rally, Socialists, Marxists, Liberals?, Citizen Wells open thread, October 3, 2010

Obama DC rally, Socialists, Marxists, Liberals?

NPR describes the attendees at the Obama DC rally as liberals.

“Liberals had their Washington, D.C. march and rally Saturday about a month after conservatives had theirs.

A noteworthy element captured in some of the reporting on the progressives’ event was that people who are ideologically left-of-center are frustrated too, just like those in the Tea Party movement.

Economic anxieties and fears that the nation was headed in the wrong direction were picked up by reporters who talked with some of the estimated 175,000, who attended according to organizers.

 
Of course, attendees at Saturday’s “One Nation Working Together” event had a different analysis of the causes of the nation’s problem than those who attended the much larger Beck rally.”

Read more:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2010/10/01/130277596/liberal-marchers-in-dc-to-demand-more-action-on-jobs

So what is a modern liberal?

122 responses to “Obama DC rally, Socialists, Marxists, Liberals?, Citizen Wells open thread, October 3, 2010

  1. citizenwells

    ***************************************************
    * *** Announcement ***
    *
    * I will begin immediately, as my time allows, at my discretion
    * begin putting into auto moderation persons making comments
    * that are in my opinion attacks on other commenters. Some of you
    * do not get it that moderation is not my first, second…. priority.
    * You may make commentary on anyone in the public arena.
    * Commenters on this blog are not fair targets.
    ****************************************************

  2. The obot FEAR displayed yesterday was a clear indication of how desperate the bo regime has become. One obot actually agreed with bo’s IDIOTIC statement that FREEDOM OF SPEECH & RELIGION were “negative.”

    It is clear that bo’s days of occupation of our White House are numbered, but we are going to have our work cut out for us in rooting out all of the obots in State and Local Government.

    Dr. Sam Sewell: “I think CGJ is the quickest, most effective, and most practical way to clean up government corruption. I have yet to see a viable argument against that premise.”

    Justice Antonin Scalia: “…In fact, the whole theory of its (the Grand Jury) function is that it belongs to no branch of the institutional Government, serving as a kind of buffer or referee between the Government and the people

    Justice Lewis Powell ruled:“ Such an (Grand Jury) investigation may be triggered by tips, rumors… or the personal knowledge of the grand jurors.”

    Abraham Lincoln: “We the people are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution.”

    http://standupamericaus.com/our-privilege-our-right-and-our-duty-civilian-grand-jury:33320

  3. CW,

    THANKS FOR THIS ARTICLE. GREAT TO HAVE GARY BACK!

    https://citizenwells.com/2010/10/03/gary-kreep-obama-eligibility-update-october-3-2010-chalice-show-interview/

    Gary Kreep Obama eligibility update, October 3, 2010, Chalice show interview

    From The Chalice Radio show October 3, 2010.

    “Patriot’s Heart’s network is honored to welcome back the incredible patriot, Gary Kreep. Gary Kreep, renowned Reagan Conservative and constitutional lawyer, is fighting the current administration on the eligibility issue.

  4. Obama Ain’t No Socialist — We Are, We Are!

  5. Good Morning! On my way out the door. But first:
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/barackobama/8038648/Bob-Woodward-says-Barack-Obama-doesnt-have-the-X-factor.html

    Bob Woodward says Barack Obama doesn’t have the ‘X-factor’
    President Barack Obama is letting down his troops and seems not to have the commitment and ‘X-factor’ to win the war in Afghanistan, Bob Woodward has told The Daily Telegraph.

  6. citizenwells | October 3, 2010 at 9:39 am |
    ***************************************************
    * *** Announcement ***

    ——
    Thank you! We need to be united!

  7. Once you scratch through all of bo’s PSUEDO-INTELLECTUAL BS about the Constitution being a “charter of negative liberties” you are left with NOTHING but warmed over MARXIST propaganda.

  8. Philo-Publius

    Interesting to note that OneNation updated their upsite and removed the links for the Communist Party and other radical socialist groups after some well known blogs and Glenn Beck exposed them. A typical strategy employed by progressives to deceive folks who do not pay attention to what is going on in our country.

    “Due to the increasing number of endorsements, we are no longer able to publish all the names of endorsing organizations on the website. Endorsing organizations will receive regular updates.”
    http://www.onenationworkingtogether.org/partners

    The CPUSA still has their endorsement posted:
    “On October 2, tens of thousands of people will stand together in Washington, demanding Congress put job creation on the front burner.”
    http://www.cpusa.org/why-we-march-and-vote/

    “A better world is possible — a world where people come before profits. That’s socialism. That’s our vision. We are the Communist Party USA.”
    http://www.cpusa.org/

    The Young Communist League USA responded to Beck, admitted their support for the OneNation rally and posted a link on their website.
    http://www.yclusa.org/article/articleview/1903/1/6/

  9. “Developing Story: It appears LTC Terry Lakin has dropped his defense team and acquired a new one.”

    “Note: This has not yet been confirmed from the LTC Lakin camp, when more details are available I will update this post. Stay tuned!”

    http://obamareleaseyourrecords.blogspot.com/2010/10/developing-story-it-appears-ltc-lakin.html

  10. Philo-Publius

    No mention by the mainstream media about any of the Communist Party and radical Socialist groups which were in attendance or the trash they left behind. Maybe they just didn’t bother to read the web sites where the sponsors and participants were listed.

    There were reports that some media outlets used photos of the huge crowds from the “Restore America” rally as the OneNation march did not attrack a large enough audience they could show in wide screen view.
    http://tinyurl.com/3363tot

    While the Beck rally stretched well down the National Mall, Saturday’s event was shaping up to be far smaller, with sparse groups lingering around the reflecting pool and other monuments.
    http://tinyurl.com/28kdn3s

  11. “No Surprize”. The, “aftermath” says it all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZCWFBJ1nwA

  12. A noteworthy element captured in some of the reporting on the progressives’ event was that people who are ideologically left-of-center are frustrated too, just like those in the Tea Party movement.

    Economic anxieties and fears that the nation was headed in the wrong direction were picked up by reporters who talked with some of the estimated 175,000, who attended according to organizers.
    =============================================

    Now that is funny. 1st it was the conservative dems who abandoned bo. Then, the Jews, then the Environmentalists, then the Gays, and now, “Et tu, Karl Marx.”

    Pretty soon bo will be down to the Gays at Man’s Country who still want to have sex with bo.

  13. This is the best bo can do? And most of these Marxists are as fed up with bo as we are!

  14. Ed Schultz draws millions of flies and stink bug at his One Nation Rally. What happened to the 10’s of Thousands of Union Thugs who were supposed to show up for your Marxist Rally?

  15. citizenwells | October 3, 2010 at 9:39 am
    Thank you, CW. And thank you for having a great place to find out what is really happening!!

  16. Philo-Publius

    Obama twice in recent days has dropped from a quotation from the Declaration of Independence a reference to the “Creator,” and now a columnist at First Things has documented how a self-described “leading progressive legal organization” has simply dropped “under God” from the Gettysburg address.
    http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=210701

  17. Philo-Publius

    ‘One Nation’ Claims ‘Satellite Image’ Proves 10/2 Rally Is Bigger Than ‘Restoring Honor’

    Maybe Ed Schultz was right about being able to attract more people than Glenn Beck: organizers of today’s “One Nation Together Rally” are claiming that, based on a “satellite image,” there are definitively more people on the Washington Mall today than there were on the 29th of August. Congratulations, liberals! Except “Restoring Honor” was on the 28th…it is a near certainty that there are more people congregated on the Mall today than there were on August 29th, given that there was no event scheduled to occur in the Mall on that date.
    http://tinyurl.com/233mjtj

  18. FreeSpeech, Cabby AZ and others interested,

    Just an update on the Strunk FOIA. As you know, last month included my Affidavit. after the responce from the DOJ, a Sur-reply request was made and included an additional Affidavit from another person. A retired Boarder Patrol Officer. Of Course and expected, the DOJ would file to deny request. Here is the update.

    9/23 — Chris filed motion for Leave to File Sur-reply
    9/27 — DOJ filed Memorandum in opposition to Sur-reply
    9/28 — Minute Order granting Motion for leave to file Sur-reply… It is hereby ORDERED that the Motion is GRANTED. Signed by Judge Richard J. Leon on 9/28 and so Entered.

    The DOJ lost that one, (of many). So let’s see if the Judge will agree with the Sur-reply and hold the DHS and DOJ feet to the fire on the FOIA.

  19. bo cohort’s ed shultz is INSANE!

  20. commie ed schultz’s promotes selling US Companies to china.

  21. In “The Post & Email” comments:
    ==========
    CDR Kerchner says:
    Sunday, October 3, 2010 at 12:12 AM

    “For the U.S. Senators to continue to say in these letters and emails that there is nothing they can do is pure B.S. For starters, they can convene a Senate fact finding hearing and investigation of Obama’s exact and true legal identity and citizenship status and subpoena all his birth registration records and any amendments to same as well as his early school and college records, travel and passport records prior to becoming a U.S. Senator. They can subpoena officials from Hawaii’s election office and the Hawaiian Democratic Party to ask what did they know and when did they know it that led them to not be able to certify Obama as constitutionally eligible as they had done for prior presidential elections. There are many other things they could do in such a Senate judiciary committee hearing and investigation with full subpoena powers given to both political parties.

    So for the Congress and Senate to keep ducking the issue in their letters saying they cannot do anything and deflecting off questions to only the courts, that is total B.S. Congress can investigate anything it wants to and has the courage to do. They don’t want to investigate this because they already knew/know the answer and they are all political cowards to face the music as what they didn’t do in 2008 and thus won’t do it now. They cannot handle the truth because they are all complicit in the cover up for Obama since 2008 till now.”

    http://www.thepostemail.com/2010/10/02/congressmen-and-senators-remain-in-denial-about-obamas-ineligibility/comment-page-1/#comment-25699

  22. I agree 100% with Hugh Hewitt.

    DON’T BUY or RENT bo’s GM COMMIE CARS!

    Have you driven a GM car lately? Those commie cars are CRAP!

  23. >>>CW; Announcement ***
    * I will begin immediately, as my time allows, at my discretion
    * begin putting into auto moderation persons making comments
    * that are in my opinion attacks on other commenters. Some of you
    * do not get it that moderation is not my first, second…. priority.
    * You may make commentary on anyone in the public arena.
    * Commenters on this blog are not fair targets.<<<

    CW,
    Thanks once again for using restraint and good judement. Free flow of ideas, good or bad, are important for input. Personal attacks don't help.
    Pete

  24. GORDO | October 3, 2010 at 11:59 am |
    In “The Post & Email” comments:
    ==========
    CDR Kerchner says:
    Sunday, October 3, 2010 at 12:12 AM

    “For the U.S. Senators to continue to say in these letters and emails that there is nothing they can do is pure B.S.
    =========================================

    I agree US Senators should show a profile of courage and lead the investigation of the ineligibility of bo, but they will not for political reasons.

    Politicians who have to run in districts with large segments of Blacks and Immigrants simply will not speak of bo’s ineligibility for fear of losing the Black and Immigrant vote.

    If the repubs retake the House, they will begin impeachment proceedings against bo, but he will not be removed by the Senate. The repubs want to have the hugely unpopular bo to run against again in 2012.

    If We the People want bo legally removed, then we will have to take Grand Jury Action.

    For information on forming a Secret Grand Jury to investigate crimes go here:

    http://thesteadydrip.blogspot.com/2009/06/how-to-start-and-lead-citizens-grand.html

  25. >>>Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 12:01 pm | I agree 100% with Hugh Hewitt.
    DON’T BUY or RENT bo’s GM COMMIE CARS!
    Have you driven a GM car lately? Those commie cars are CRAP!<<

    Free Speech,
    This guy tries to make it about the 'American Worker' when NOTHING could be further from the truth. Obama is pandering to the UNION worker, not American or American Workers. Obama has waged WAR on small business in American–and the result is record failings and empty commercial real estate. Obama has waged WAR on the Physicians of American and their business spirit, trying to force them to become employees and eventually UNION workers. Obama has waged WAR on the manufacturing industry, taxing and regulating jobs right out of this country.
    When it is all said and done, the truth is Obama isn’t even about the Union Worker. Nope, if he was he would be protecting the manufacturing base of this country and boosting new businesses and ideas. GM could have been re-organized without stealing from the investors and giving to the unions. Chrysler could have been re-organized without closing down ‘republican dealerships’. These are not the acts of an administration whom is trying to help the industry or the ‘little guy’ investors, it’s about pay to play politics. So what does it all mean….it means Obama is pro-UNION leadership. Obama is all about replacing union pensions that were stolen for political payouts and graft, so the Union Leadership can still pay to play. The UNIONS are rotten at the Core, they wrap themselves in the Union flag, while they rape the members and the country.
    When you buy a Government Motors car or truck you aren’t supporting American Workers, your supporting pay to play politics and Federal Government unconstitutional behavior. Feel free to send this to the idiot on the video above, because the rest of the Country has figured it out. Union/progressives/socialists/community organizers/Medicaid/federally mandated health care insurance IT’S NOT ABOUT THE PEOPLE—-IT’S ABOUT THE ELITE WHO GET RICH STEALING FROM THOSE WHO WORK.
    Pete

  26. SirWilliam | October 3, 2010 at 9:49 am |

    Ms. Helga,

    Amazing! Absolutely Amazing!……

    You must have mind reading capabilities.
    ____________________________________________________

    Sir William – I am happy to see that we are on the same wavelength. Do you remember the writer William L. Shirer? To me he was famous for the book “Berlin Diary 1934 -1945”. In my own little way I have used CW’s site to keep my own little diary – THE USURPERVILLE DIARY 2008 – ???

    http://www.google.com/webhp#hl=en&expIds=25657,26781,26885,26993&sugexp=ldymls&xhr=t&q=usurperville+diary&cp=18&pf=p&sclient=psy&site=webhp&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=usurperville+diary&gs_rfai=&pbx=1&fp=c6affe93747c32d0

  27. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    How odd that Citizen Wells was finally provoked into making specific demands on the civility of the bloggers – and then –

    1. The very first words of the first post were “The Obot”.

    2. The very first entire paragraph was a vicious attack. It was particularly heinous attack in that the name calling was against someone who had presented the truth and light, and explained thoroughly the documented logic and history involved. And was further degraded by the fact that the name caller had perpetrated a particularly nasty attack and the “truth and light” author had destroyed the assertion and conclusions of the name caller. So, the name caller, having no leg left to stand on resorted to personal attacks in direct violation of the new Executive Order.

  28. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 12:42 pm |

    My impressions also.

  29. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 10:02 am |

    The obot FEAR displayed yesterday was a clear indication of how desperate the bo regime has become. One obot actually agreed with bo’s IDIOTIC statement that FREEDOM OF SPEECH & RELIGION were “negative.”

    ========================================

    That is indeed what they are. And that is a GOOD THING. None of us here made up these “terms of art”. We might have chosen them differently. It’s just like a medical test result of Positive and Negative. From a patients point of view they may seem backwards.

    But you might as well argue that White and Black were swapped and given to the wrong colors. Learn to live with the language that is established.

    Just memorize this:

    NEGATIVE LIBERTIES –
    those are the good ones – the ones Patriots strive for.

    POSITIVE LIBERTIES –
    those are the bad ones – the ones the Socialists invented.

    Continued misunderstanding of these critical and important Political and Philosophical categories, by people who should now better, and people who seek to enlighten us with their wisdom, is frightening.

    Please read, and then you will understand:

    
    Most revealing statement made
    on this blog in many months.
    Do not pass it up.  Explains much.
    
    https://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2010/10/02/rush-limbaugh-obama-a-foreigner-we-dont-need-birth-certificate-citizen-wells-open-thread-october-2-2010/#comment-163134
    
    
  30. Pete | October 3, 2010 at 12:37 pm |
    >>>Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 12:01 pm | I agree 100% with Hugh Hewitt.
    DON’T BUY or RENT bo’s GM COMMIE CARS!
    Have you driven a GM car lately? Those commie cars are CRAP!<<

    Free Speech,
    This guy tries to make it about the 'American Worker' when NOTHING could be further from the truth. Obama is pandering to the UNION worker, not American or American Workers. Obama has waged WAR on small business in American–and the result is record failings and empty commercial real estate. Obama has waged WAR on the Physicians of American and their business spirit, trying to force them to become employees and eventually UNION workers. Obama has waged WAR on the manufacturing industry, taxing and regulating jobs right out of this country.
    When it is all said and done, the truth is Obama isn’t even about the Union Worker. Nope, if he was he would be protecting the manufacturing base of this country and boosting new businesses and ideas. GM could have been re-organized without stealing from the investors and giving to the unions. Chrysler could have been re-organized without closing down ‘republican dealerships’. These are not the acts of an administration whom is trying to help the industry or the ‘little guy’ investors, it’s about pay to play politics. So what does it all mean….it means Obama is pro-UNION leadership. Obama is all about replacing union pensions that were stolen for political payouts and graft, so the Union Leadership can still pay to play. The UNIONS are rotten at the Core, they wrap themselves in the Union flag, while they rape the members and the country.
    When you buy a Government Motors car or truck you aren’t supporting American Workers, your supporting pay to play politics and Federal Government unconstitutional behavior. Feel free to send this to the idiot on the video above, because the rest of the Country has figured it out. Union/progressives/socialists/community organizers/Medicaid/federally mandated health care insurance IT’S NOT ABOUT THE PEOPLE—-IT’S ABOUT THE ELITE WHO GET RICH STEALING FROM THOSE WHO WORK.
    Pete
    ============================================

    Well Stated, Pete!

    It looks like from the poor turn-out for the Union Thugs Marxist Rally yesterday that the rank and file American Workers are waking up to the fact that bo is killing the American Economy.

  31. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Cabby – AZ | October 3, 2010 at 12:52 pm |

    Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 12:42 pm |

    My impressions also.

    ===================================

    Did you read my whole piece on Negative and Positive Liberties? It was a tour-de-force. For once I was able to rise above crossing swords on the field of opinion, and clearly demonstrate actual knowledge and indisputable facts. It seemed to me to really highlight and offset what GOOD WRITING and GOOD REPORTING looks like as opposed to some the whining and posturing that we all complain about.

    Sometimes just being able to present a GOOD EXAMPLE is healing.

    If nothing else it is an absolute “clinic” in the application of SUNSHINE THEORY.

    PS – it seems clear that certain people did not even read this essay except maybe the first sentence – or else it surely did not penetrate. SIGH.

  32. Watch the entire video, until the very end.
    My keyboard is wet with tears of pride!

  33. I’m late to the party, probably, but was stunned to hear Elena Kagan will be recused from voting on the Supreme Court on a number of issues since she was involved in the cases legally prior to her appointment. SHE was the attorney representing Obummer on all his eligibility lawsuits. So, even if an eligibility case makes it to the Supremes, the decision could be 4 to 4 and again nothing would be done. (I see pre-planning on Obummer’s part here.)

    Many thanks to Citizen Wells, for any effort he can make to stop the quarreling between bloggers…some days 1/2 of the blog is just insults flying back and forth…interrupting serious discussion…and I’m beginning to think that perhaps that is the aim…run off those making intelligent points. (You’ll always have me reading these blogs…I’m not in that upper stratosphere of intelligence, and I visit to absorb and learn.)

  34. Philo-Publius @ 11:36 am | I think in Obama’s delusional state he thinks he is god, another point is he is not quoting accurately-if you do that you are not quoting a piece you’re just plain wrong. This fool can’t even get the basics correct, can’t imagine what he can do with the more difficult material-or is his teleprompter playing games with his head-the teleprompter knowing Obama wouldn’t know the difference?

  35. Free Speech @ 11:45 am |
    “bo cohort’s ed shultz is INSANE!”
    They have no idea how many of us Dems are now Tea Party due to Obama’s major over-reach and his personal insanity. My best guess is 60 per cent, seeing these guys act like animals is enough to propel another 30 per cent to Tea Party.

  36. In answer to the socialist rally:

    I just viewed several photos of the signs and mess the bussed in socialists left at Saturday’s rally. The following is my response!

    Thanks to the White House Muslim Socialist these self destructive stupid people finally have the nerve to openly admit what they are and what they have been secretely doing for many years–BETRAY AMERICA. Traitors and pigs–all of them. Look at the mess they left where they stood. Isn’t that symbolic of the mess they will create for America is they take over?

  37. “IF” they take over.

  38. Btw, did you see the filth those people left behind. At least the Beck folks cleaned up after themselves!

  39. Kiltie,

    With all due respect, you are totally misinterpretating the significance of kagan’s recusal from her temporary job on SCOTUS. As you pointed out, kagan has been forced to recuse herself from hearing cases involving bo’s ineligibility, however, this is a good thing for Patriots and a very bad thing for bo. Contrary to your conclusion, bo has, at best, only 3 votes for him on the eligibility issue. Frankly, I am not so sure that even Ginsberg will side with bo on the eligibility issue. I would not at all be surprised to see a 6 to 2 SCOTUS ruling against bo on the eligibility issue.

    http://www.jdjournal.com/2010/09/11/supreme-court-justice-elena-kagan-to-recuse-herself-from-11-more-cases/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+JdJournal+%28JD+Journal%29

  40. On my way to watch football and have a beer(s). The following link shows clearly the difference between Beck’s rally and the Communist rally.

    http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2010/10/animated-gif-compare-and-contrast-crowd.html

  41. After I posted St. Francis’ prayer I realized how St. Francis got his start. St. Francis was fighting the corruption which plagued the Catholic Church at that time, St. Francis of Assisi-an original Tea Party member-who knew? It is all about corruption of institutions-in Francis’ time it was the hierarchy of the church, in our time it is our government. Institutions who should have remained pure, but corrupt elements drifted in, therefore God sends his prophets to restore balance, which can only be achieved by removing the corruption.
    http://www.marian.edu/rmc/Pages/default.aspx
    Eight centuries ago in the Italian town of Assisi, a young man named Francis had an experience that changed history. As he knelt before the crucifix in the church of San Damiano, Francis heard Christ speak:
    “Francis, go rebuild my church, which is falling down.”

  42. http://www.noquarterusa.net/blog/2010/10/03/the-new-ink-stained-wretches-you-and-me/
    By LisaBcloseAuthor: LisaB Name: Lisa B
    Email: susanunpc@gmail.com
    Site: http://
    About: See Authors Posts (285) on October 3, 2010 at 10:30 AM in Current Affairs
    As election time gets closer, more and more journalists and opinionators will try to explain why Obama and his minions are unpopular so soon after enjoying massive approval. It’s hard to resist the topic. After all, how often do you see such a complete reversal of fortune? Let’s see what some journalists say.
    RCP has a great piece about why Democrats are likely to lose big this election cycle. I’ve excerpted a tiny portion; go read the whole thing.
    * The demonization of the Tea Party movement. Take your pick: teabaggers, racists, angry white men, fringe elements, bigots, Astro-turfers, etc. etc. Democrats and the media have tried every one, and every one has been a miserable failure for one overwhelmingly simple reason: decent Americans know they’re decent, and getting insulted by Democrats running the country into the ground has only stiffened their resolve. Progressives want to demonize people who believe in smaller government, fiscal responsibility and a desire to return to Constitutional principles? Why not attack people who believe in guns, and religion too? Oh wait. The president already did that as well.
    (more)

  43. Michelle | October 3, 2010 at 1:14 pm |
    Free Speech @ 11:45 am |
    “bo cohort’s ed shultz is INSANE!”
    They have no idea how many of us Dems are now Tea Party due to Obama’s major over-reach and his personal insanity. My best guess is 60 per cent, seeing these guys act like animals is enough to propel another 30 per cent to Tea Party.
    ==========================================

    ed schultz becoming the msm spokesman for the obots is great for the Tea Party movement. Like the IDIOTIC obots here on CW, even schultz’s fellow obots disown the maniacally IDIOTIC schultz.

  44. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    kiltie | October 3, 2010 at 1:03 pm |

    ===============================

    There should NEVER be any quarreling over opinions. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion as long as it is defensible and not just off the wall.

    There should NEVER be any name calling as a substitute to discussion and elaboration of the issues.

    But, having said that, there is such a thing as right and wrong. Individuals are not entitled to their own facts. People come over here and spew nonsense about Israel being the cause of the ‘Mideast Situation’.

    Question for you: Should that kind of hate and anti-Semitism be allowed to just sit there and exhale toxic vapors, or should it be stomped down and neutralized?

  45. Someone needs to drug test Ed Shultz….or kick his butt! Thanks for fighting the good fight, stay safe, God Bless.

  46. Michelle | October 3, 2010 at 1:41 pm |

    Democrats and the media have tried every one, and every one has been a miserable failure for one overwhelmingly simple reason: decent Americans know they’re decent, and getting insulted by Democrats running the country into the ground has only stiffened their resolve. Progressives want to demonize people who… desire to return to Constitutional principles?
    =============================================

    Sounds like the boDemRats, the msm and the internet obots all are using the tactics of personal attacks because they are losing in the battle of intellect and ideas

    Like the internet obots, the boDemRats and msm are just stiffening the resolve of “decent Americans who know they’re decent.”

  47. Margie | October 3, 2010 at 2:05 pm |
    Someone needs to drug test Ed Shultz….or kick his butt! Thanks for fighting the good fight, stay safe, God Bless.
    ====================================

    Drug testing ed would be a waste of money. The result of ed’s drug test would be the same as the result of a drug test of bo.

  48. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 12:59 pm |
    Did you read my whole piece on Negative and Positive Liberties? It was a tour-de-force.
    ********************************
    Yes, yes, I did! It was an excellent expose, which should straighten out a common misperception. Here is an instance where “negative” is good and “positive” is bad. It’s just that when it’s connected with LIBERTIES, some folks misconstrue the meaning if they are not well informed.

  49. Free Speech @ 2:09 pm | You would think people who were/are seeking your vote would have brains enough not to insult you on any level-insulting a person’s intelligence was their first mistake. I watched Face the Nation this am, it was the Democrats turn-last week Tea Party people-so that’s fair. The Dems sounded so whiny-Obama worked so hard, I think they meant between chronic vacations and other nonsensical stuff-Olympics, fake Nobel prize etc., he’s the greatest thing since sliced bread-I don’t think so-he’s agenda that he got passed-that 70 per cent of Americans hate-same old party line-boring as he*l -Bill Richardson was on I don’t remember the rest. The other thing it is all Bush’s fault and the Republicans, which I don’t like because the Dems were in power and could have voted against Bush but they didn’t so they are lying right there. Along with the racism charges-this blame game tactic was beaten to death long ago.

  50. Michelle | October 3, 2010 at 2:23 pm |
    Free Speech @ 2:09 pm | You would think people who were/are seeking your vote would have brains enough not to insult you on any level…
    ======================================
    Not only did the obots insult our intelligence, but they tried to browbeat us into believing that the IDIOT bo was some sort of intellectual giant.

    “Negative liberties?” LOL!

  51. Re: citizenwells | October 3, 2010 at 9:39 am |

    *** Announcement ***

    # # # #
    Finally. Let’s hope the people who dare to personally attack other posters here and who act like mean spirited bullies who are malicious, rude, and disgusting get put in moderation and promptly deleted…. This should have be happening already…..Let’s hope truth, wisdom, polite etiquette, virtues, purity, justice, and righteousness can live here fully alive now. It will be wonderful & very great to see that certain people can’t personally attack each other here. Yow, that already stops thousands of malicious posts of a few posters….. Thank you CW! Finally….It’s about time!!

  52. Re: citizenwells | October 3, 2010 at 9:39 am |

    *** Announcement ***

    # # # #
    Thank you CW! Let’s hope the people who dare to personally attack other posters here and who act like mean spirited bullies who are malicious, rude, and disgusting get put in moderation and promptly deleted. Let’s hope truth, wisdom, polite etiquette, virtues, purity, justice, and righteousness can live here fully alive now. Thank you CW! Finally…. It’s about time!!

  53. Re: tennbrock | October 3, 2010 at 11:30 am |
    citizenwells | October 3, 2010 at 9:39 am
    Thank you, CW. And thank you for having a great place to find out what is really happening!!
    # # #
    Amen!

  54. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    “Sounds like the boDemRats, the msm and the internet obots all are using the tactics of personal attacks because they are losing in the battle of intellect and ideas.”

    ==================================

    Did you all see this? A totally profound principle of civilized dialog. And did you see who posted this? Stunning and amazing.

  55. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 2:41 pm |

    Not only did the obots insult our intelligence, but they tried to browbeat us into believing that the IDIOT bo was some sort of intellectual giant.

    “Negative liberties?” LOL!

    ===================================

    WANH? And such people have the temerity to criticize Ed Schulz?

    Zero is no “intellectual giant”: He simply correctly stated that the current bill of rights consists of Negative Liberties (i.e. the stuff patriots like) and that if it was him, he would not have done that and would have instead put in the stuff that the Socialists like.

    Anybody who agrees with Zero that Negative Liberties are bad and ought to be “fixed” is very questionable of wisdom or astuteness. (<— notice, weak sweeping statement, not direct personal attack).

    Negative Liberties means States Rights and We The People.

    Positive Liberties means National/Government Nanny State.

    Who wants "Positive Liberties". Not me! In the spirit of EVERYTHING we have been doing, isn't someone who wants Positive Liberties, just like Zero – counterproductive to everything we stand for? A high candidate for being forever banned?

    I am all for being civil and not making unwarranted personal attacks. But can our blog and our mission survive stuff like this?

    The SUNSHINE has SHONE!

  56. Starla | October 3, 2010 at 3:00 pm |

    and maybe CW should start with your comments. Did you count the number of ad hominems in this one post?

    This is the problem here, it is the ad hominems as they are exactly stated in this one post which is why there has been pandemonium. How many times have you attacked but refuse to see that what is being said is hypocrisy?

  57. kiltie | October 3, 2010 at 1:03 pm |
    hi Kiltie from what I could see, as an outsider, none of the cases from which Kagan is recused related to anything remotely close to eligibility.

    Also, I think it is a good thing that she at least has the “smarts” to know that this is what she must do in any case where she had a role in preparing the govt response.

  58. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 1:25 pm |

    In essence I agree with your response to Kiltie. My doubt is Anthony Kennedy, but considering his comment that he will not retire until Øbama is gone, I would think that he would be a vote against.

    The cases to watch from the Supremes in my view will be those related to things like Abominablecare. If my feel on the subject is correct then Kagan has to recuse herself from any of those cases as well. This means that the Court could end up with 4-4 (which I doubt with Stephens the party hack out of the way). It could be 5-3 depending upon Ginsburg. Keeping in mind that Ginsburg voted negative in Citizens United case, I would see that kind of case being 5-3.

  59. Re: Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    I have told you countless times here Aussie:

    (1) Aussie, Get a life. (2) Ignore my comments.
    (3) Stop mentioning me.
    (4) Aussie, You see my name and start attaacking me every time I post here.
    (5) Aussie, I assure you, I see you for who and what you are and so do others, so there is no need to say here what I really think of you & your comments.
    (6) Aussie, Start Today and Get A Life & Grow Up. While you are breathing there is still time to do this……

  60. Philo-Publius | October 3, 2010 at 11:01 am |

    I doubt that they can hide the fact that their rally was nothing more than a May Day rally being held in October.

    All of those groups, they are all Communists, Marxists, Maoists. The big fish endorser was none other than Øbama. How typical when he cannot help himself and align with these Marxists.

  61. Starla | October 3, 2010 at 4:25 pm |

    tut tut…. this is the kind of post that will see someone in moderation.

    It is the kind of direct attack which is unacceptable.

    Very bad…..

  62. Re: Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 4:16 pm

    I have told you countless times here Aussie:

    (1) Aussie, Get A Life.
    (2) Please ignore my comments.
    (3) Stop mentioning me.
    (4) Aussie, skip my comments. My comments are not meant for you.
    Every time I post here, you see my name and start attacking me every time.
    (5) Aussie, I assure you, I see you for who and what you are…… and so do others, so there is no need to say here what I really think of you & your comments.
    (6) Aussie, Start Today and Get A Life & Grow Up. While you are breathing there is still time to do this……
    (7) Aussie, I do not want to engage you because a discussion with you is a waste of precious life and time.
    (8) Move on…skip my comments, ignore me….Aussie….The one who is attacking someone here is you attacking me……MOVE ON &.GO AWAY Aussie, & Grow Up & Get A Life Aussie…

  63. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 3:45 pm |
    and did you see the even more direct attacks by the other poster?

    Nothing much to say on the subject because it seems that some people do not understand the meaning of an ad hominem.

  64. Starla | October 3, 2010 at 4:37 pm |

    I can only hope that CW will see these ad hominem attacks and take the appropriate action. It really has to stop.

  65. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 3:55 pm |

    CC I am not sure that I understand this difference between postive and negative rights.

    I would understand the Bill of Rights that you have in terms of positive, rather than negative.

    My understanding is that Øbama wants to shred those rights that are enshrined within the Constitution, including the right for freedom of religion.

    Perhaps someone could expound upon just the right of freedom of religion alone. The reason that I mention this one right is that I notice that it is under constant attack by those who demand “freedom from religion”.

    Now I know the difference between the two concepts because I have expounded upon why the separation of powers between Church and State is so very important. In fact maybe this is why it is a negative right – “no one religion will be a State religion”. Am I on the right track?

  66. Steadyjohn | October 3, 2010 at 1:17 pm |

    It was an interesting contrast between the two events. After the Beck rally there was not a scrap of paper.

    After the May Day rally, there was paper everywhere, with the signs just being thrown upon the ground. The lot of them are just plain grubs.

    I saw quite a few of the pictures on other sites 🙂

  67. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 12:52 pm |
    ha!! I have always thought that GM cars are crap!!!

    The last time I had to use one, was at the end of August. It was a rental (an upgrade 🙂 ) and although it had all the features, it was missing a few things that made the car one that remains on my DO NOT BUY list.

    As someone who has arthritis and has problems with getting in and out of the car, the one that we drove in Melbourne was terrible. I could not swing my legs out of the car and I had great difficulty getting into and out of that car!!

    For economy the Nissan Tida (sp) is very good. It has the smaller engine and is good for local driving. For economy on the longer trips then FORD is the perfect choice. We can go Canberra to Sydney with about a 1 tank fill-up 🙂 or pretty close to that kind of record. The Ford is not so good for the local trips :(. However, it is comfortable to drive and it is comfortable to be a passenger.

    I have never like the GM cars. Maybe it has a lot to do with the fact that I was once involved in a near-fatal accident. We were told that if the car had been a GM model then it would have been split in two. I doubt that any of my siblings or myself would have survived that kind of thing. My dad was driving a Peugeot at the time.

  68. Aussie,

    Being that kagan was the attorney of record (solicitor) for the bo regime, I would argrue that she must be recused from all cases concerning the eligibility issue. All the eligibility cases involve the same facts and issues and kagan is clearly prejudiced by her prior representation of the bo regime.

    bo is about to be smacked down bigtime by SCOTUS.

    http://www.examiner.com/conservative-in-national/sources-say-smackdown-of-obama-by-supreme-court-may-be-inevitable

  69. Aussie,

    Like you I was recently given a GM rental car. It had the most poorly designed interior of any car that I have ever sat in. Like you, it was extremely difficult for me to get in and out of the driver’s seat and the piece of junk had so little head room that I had a neck ache. Very poor visibility. The controls were the least intuitive that I have ever seen. I could not help but think that bo’s commie cars are designed to fail.

  70. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 11:20 am |
    If these Marxists are fed up with Øbama then it is because they think that he is not moving fast enough to turn the USA into a Marxist state.

    These are the people who are the real Øbots. They are unionists, in particular SEIU members, or Teamsters. The Electrical Trades Unions are also usually Communists.

    During the Second World War the one group that tried to disrupt our troop movement, and the movement of Ordnance was that group employed on the waterfront. Here in Australia they are probably the most well-known of the Marxist unions.

    Back in the 1950s the ALP suffered a serious split. This was due to the ascension to leadership by Dr. Evatt – a known Marxist. It was the mostly Catholic contingent who broke away and formed the DLP (the Democratic Labor Party). It kept the ALP out of govt for 20 years, until the rise of Gough Whitlam (a covert Marxist). It took a generation for their return because people soon forget the havoc that is wrought by these Marxists when they gain power.

    It took less than 2 years under Gough Whitlam before there were signs of that havoc. However it took a scandal to force the downfall of the Whitlam Govt.

    There are a lot of similarities between that period and the current period that we are living. We have seen the return of the Marxist agenda here in Australia. We are stuck with Julia-the-Marxist Gillard who had to prostitute herself to the Independents in order to retain power after our election ended in a hung Parliament. Since she has retained power she has been hell-bent upon a setting up a radical agenda, with no let up in the spending. Does it sound familiar?

    If you care to look back at the early 1970s and see the harm done by Carter, as well as in Australia the harm done by Whitlam, we should be able to draw some lessons. However, due to historical revisionism I doubt that within this generation we will draw sufficient lessons from allowing these radicals to gain power.

    The other day I was reading up a bit more about President Richard Nixon. I had no idea that he was so popular because as I remember the press coverage here in Australia he was seen in a more negative light. That man was indeed very accomplished. He graduated from Duke University. He had served in the Second World War despite the fact that he is a Quaker. His policies were not all that bad. Yet, what I remembered most about him was the epithet “mad bomber Nixon.”

  71. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 5:00 pm |

    I absolutely agree that when those cases come before the Supreme Court that she must be recused.

    My point was simply that the cases being talked about by the article did not refer to any eligibility cases, but to other cases that had found their way to the Supreme Court.

    I would also expect that she recuses herself when the Abominablecare cases make it to the Supreme Court since she also had a hand in preparing the government case for them.

  72. SirWilliam | October 3, 2010 at 11:43 am |

    William thank you for the update on this particular case.

    As one who has worked in the archives environment in the past I am well aware of the requirements for the sentencing of records. The response that was initially given for not providing the records was wrong!!

    Of course I am only aware of the Australian situation. However, from the POV of those who seek records on their ancestors any form of record keeping like this is usually kept.

    If the archives act (whatever it is called) requires that records are to be kept in perpetuity then those records must not be destroyed. They cannot be sentenced for destruction!!

  73. Aussie,

    One of the things that makes me most confident of the imminent demise of bo is the Nixon experience. President Nixon was far more popular than bo ever was. Just look at the comparison of Nixon & bo’s election totals and remember that much of bo’s vote was procured by fraud.

    Nixon v. mcgovern

    Electoral vote 520 to 17
    States carried 49 1 + DC
    Popular vote 47,168,710 to 29,173,222
    Percentage 60.7% to 37.5%

    McCain v. bo

    Electoral vote 365 to 173
    States carried 28 + DC + NE-02 to 22
    Popular vote 69,456,897[1] to 59,934,814[1]
    Percentage 52.9%[1] to 45.7%[1]

    Furthermore, President Nixon did not have a major Network and major News Publications criticizing him like bo has against him. Nor was there overwhelming evidence of crimes by President Nixon as there are against bo.

    Had President Nixon not attempted to coverup for the Watergate Burglars, he would never have been forced to resign. Even with the coverup if Nixon had destroyed the tapes and refused to resign, I doubt that he would have been forced out of office.

    bo, on the other hand, is going to be INDICTED, CONVICTED and IMPRISONED and there is nothing he or his co-conspirators can do to stop it now. In effect, the repubs have made bo a prisoner in the White House and they do not seem inclined to allow him to escape an ultimate prison sentence.

    bo is hated by the majority of Americans, the repubs and the majority of the current and/or former members of his own dem party.

  74. http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/liberal-media-concludes-size-doesnt-matter/?singlepage=true
    There are some rather funny comments. Also, click on the Doug Ross link because he has a flashing pictures that compares the crowd density for the two rallies.

  75. Free Speech @ 5:57 pm |
    “bo is hated by the majority of Americans,” I would add despised and all his minions too.

  76. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 5:57 pm |

    FS, the more I learn about President Richard Nixon, the more I see that he was a truly great President. That is hard to believe considering that he resigned to avoid impeachment.

    The Wikpedia article on Nixon was very fair. Since I am not a fan of Wikpedia that is saying something. He was responsible for a lot of positive reform, and especially in the arena of civil rights.

    When Nixon was President I knew that he was a Quaker. Our press made a big deal out of that point. A part of the reason that they made a big deal was due to the dress worn by the wife of the Australian Prime Minister at the time, Sonia McMahon. Here is a link with a picture of the dress:

    http://www.smh.com.au/lifestyle/people/sonia-mcmahon-elegance-loyalty-and-that-dress-20100403-rkcv.html

    It has a split at the side and shows off Sonia’s rather lovely long legs 🙂

    The Australian press thought it an inappropriate dress at the time… but hey they never saw the outfits worn by MooMoo!!!!! I should add here especially the one where her breast is squeezed and almost hanging out… ack tacky, tacky.

  77. Michelle | October 3, 2010 at 6:22 pm |

    I cannot stand listening to him speak. I cannot understand how anyone could call him charismatic. He is nothing of the sort.

    Perhaps at an SEIU rally he might be magnetic, but nowhere else.

  78. Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 6:28 pm |
    Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 5:57 pm |

    FS, the more I learn about President Richard Nixon, the more I see that he was a truly great President. ==============================================

    I would not go so far as to say Nixon was a “great” President. He was better than bo and carter, but no where near as good as Reagan or Ford for that matter.

  79. Michelle | October 3, 2010 at 6:22 pm |
    Free Speech @ 5:57 pm |
    “bo is hated by the majority of Americans,” I would add despised and all his minions too.

    =====================================

    As Col West so aptly said, “I can’t stand him. I just can’t stand him.”

  80. Aussie @ 6:30 pm | The National News is on, they are talking about his low numbers, but the Dems are fighting back, discussed the Mall thing yesterday, photo looked more like it was taken from Glenn Beck’s march-showed Brown v/s Whitman-he’s ahead? I find that hard to believe. They talked about the Mexican drug violent gangs killing and intruding onto American soil DUH. This admin practically gave them an open invite. They killed a man in TX this week and folks (American) are being warned to be careful on the water. One more month until election-I hope the Tea Party releases the video’s showing the attacks on American citizens in so many forms.

  81. Free Speech @ 6:38 pm |
    “As Col West so aptly said, “I can’t stand him. I just can’t stand him.”
    That is why he is so popular in FL with Democrats (former).

  82. Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 6:28 pm |
    Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 5:57 pm |

    FS, the more I learn about President Richard Nixon, the more I see that he was a truly great President. That is hard to believe considering that he resigned to avoid impeachment.
    ***************************
    Aussie, in 1960 I voted for Nixon because his policies were better in my opinion than those of JFK’s (at the time). Then again in 1968 I was very happy that he won after trying so hard before. He was not a bit good when it came to economic policy, however. His wage and price controls in the early ’70’s played havoc with the free enterprise system.

    I remember vividly a severe problem I had with a doctor client. He was the sole owner of his corporation, which was limited as to how much salary could be paid to him, because of the wage controls. Then, that created a problem because of the excess retained earnings rules. In other words, there were a couple of years of severe dilemmas, because of what to do with the earnings from the medical practice, which was becoming very successful. The amount of salary to him was capped, but that meant that the rest had to stay in the corporation, which was headed then for violation of the accumulated excess earnings rules thus incurring a prohibitive penalty.

    We managed to make it, but I, for one, was deeply grateful when the wage and price controls were lifted. Everyone was complaining, and it was a nightmare that I’ll not forget. Price controls, also, were very bad. Interfering with market rules in that manner don’t work. It all seemed rather out of character for Nixon.

  83. Philo-Publius

    Aussie at 4:33 pm
    Philo-Publius | October 3, 2010 at 11:01 am |

    I doubt that they can hide the fact that their rally was nothing more than a May Day rally being held in October.

    —————————–
    That’s exactly what the media puppets have been doing. Only those of us who are paying attention know the truth. The rest of the voting public don’t have a clue, don’t care or are Marxist supporters….that explains how someone like Obama got elected and why so many communists/socialists are in the Democratic Party.

  84. Cabby – AZ | October 3, 2010 at 7:23 pm |
    Cabby, I read the Wikpedia article, or maybe it was another one.. not sure… What it pointed out is that those wages and price freezes were not his policies, but the Congress – the Dems.

    I was amazed that they tried to stick Nixon with certain policies that were meant to harm him.

    Australia did not experience a wages and prices freeze until after 1975. I actually support this in the short term because it helps to break down Stagflation.

    The stagflation was just ramping up when Nixon became President. As you should be aware there are always lags in the economy and what was happening was that in the first 4 years there was the impact of the Johnson years – overexpenditure. I am assuming that this would have led to the use of a wages and prices freeze because inflation was on the increase. On top of that we had the first of the two oil crises that caused the price of petrol (gas) to increase at the pump.

    It is pretty much the same story right now it is the Øbama policies that are starting to impact which will see a rise in inflation, which is at present being hidden because of changes they made to the basket of goods. It is the same in Australia. The damage from the KRUDD govt and now the Julia-the-Marxist govt has been done. As a result of their policies, and of pushing watermelon policies I do in fact forsee another period of stagflation – high interest rates as govt competes with private capital for funds, high inflation because prices will rise as a result of watermelon policies, and continuing high unemployment leaving the economy to continue to stagnate.

    The history books will tell the real story, and if it is told without revisionism then you will see that the blame is laid upon Congress.

    What I find amazing is that this man who was a Quaker did in fact order those bombings in Vietnam and Laos.

  85. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 6:35 pm |

    In my lifetime there is no USA President to compare with President Reagan.

    I would disagree that President Ford was better than Nixon. The reason I disagree is based upon the foreign policy aspects. Nixon had the stature and he made inroads where others had failed.

    Nixon took crap over Vietnam, but the truth is that it was LBJ who escalated the participation of US military in the region. Until that escalation there had been a small team that was present.

    Like I said, the newspapers over here were big on the “mad bomber Nixon” meme. However, those who used that epithet were wrong, just like they are wrong about GWB.

  86. Thank you everyone for the responses to my concerns. I can’t hold my own in these discussions, but I read Citizen Wells daily and I am learning a lot. I am a better educated voter because I do.

  87. kiltie | October 3, 2010 at 8:24 pm |
    Thank you everyone for the responses to my concerns. I can’t hold my own in these discussions, but I read Citizen Wells daily and I am learning a lot. I am a better educated voter because I do.
    ========================================

    Thank you for your thought provoking post, Kiltie.

  88. Philo-Publius | October 3, 2010 at 8:03 pm |

    🙂 People are waking up to the LSM. It is just the zombies who still take notice of the LSM

  89. kiltie | October 3, 2010 at 8:24 pm |
    Kiltie you are welcome.. and I am here to learn as well 🙂

  90. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 8:08 pm |

    ===============================

    Nixon was stuck with a preliminary version of the disease that came to be called Bush Derangement Syndrome.

    He was one of the most knowledgable and competent presidents. He did not “present well” compared to the “glorious” JFK, and he had numerous quirks, maybe even more than typical of a “regular person”.

    Methinks his policies were as sound as they could be with what and who he had to work with. In the medical business when a VERY GOOD doctor undertakes a difficult case, ultimately he is not scored with the “outcome” but with what is called a “risk adjusted outcome”. This is legitimate, meaningful, and necessary.

    In Zero’s case he is not VERY GOOD. Nobody should have hired him or assigned him to a “difficult case”. (Why would you assign your most difficult cases to the staff doctor with the least experience and they most wack and bizarre theories of how to practice medicine?)

    Also, with Zero – he has played the “risk adjusted” game far beyond where it is reasonable or even makes since. He is a loser, a Witch Doctor, period. Time to saddle him complete with the entire “outcome”.

    But back to Nixon – do you understand how utterly trivial were his transgressions? We know of worse things than that for EVERY president following him. Furthermore, how would you like to have been him? “Hey, this is how this town works. Everybody shades the law a little and spies on each other and intimidates as much as they can get away with! Why pick on me?” If it had been a black/white thing, the “nixon” would have surely cried RACISM and probably got that to stick – and the accusers “hung” in shame.

    “We” get so fascinated with tempests in teapots and then whistle while the sea around us roils!. Sigh.

  91. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    kiltie | October 3, 2010 at 8:24 pm |

    ============================

    I think it was you – I asked a very important question of – you don’t need any deep knowledge to answer this – just common sense and your expressed willingness to learn.

    In regards you righteous request for a Civil Discussion:

    Do you think it is best to clean up the Stink Bombs or just let them lay there for innocent people to fall into?

  92. Free Speech | October 3, 2010 at 5:12 pm |

    I am not sure that I can blame the car, but I had the most excruciating headache over that weekend.

    Yes, the car was terrible and I was getting in and out of the passenger seat!!!

    I was in Melbourne to celebrate my sister’s 60th birthday. I did not get to see my niece with her new premature baby (I only learned that she had the baby when I got to my destination!!). My other sister, the mother of this particular niece passed away as a result of cancer that went to her bones (origin unknown). We also went to have a look at our oldest son’s new house. We did not get to have a lot at it from the inside but outside it looked good – just a lot of mud on the ground.

    I found it very difficult to get in and out of that car, especially the getting out – it was uncomfortable.

    I prefer Ford cars. I have driven Mitsubishi cars but so long as they are Government Motors as well, I would not seek to own one. I would prefer to stick with the Nissan or Datsun cars, or Toyota as another choice.

  93. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 8:52 pm |
    you just summarized my “feel” with regard to Nixon. I think that he was wronged over the Watergate scandal. It was nothing in comparison to the scandals that followed. However, he lied and he covered up…

    I thought that I read something about Nixon’s background that indicated that he had a spot of African blood in his veins. If I can find it again I will post it because if it is correct then Øbozo was not the “first black president” 🙂

  94. Nissan makes good cars. They have a non-union manufacturing plant in Tennessee.

  95. Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 8:59 pm |
    Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 8:52 pm |
    you just summarized my “feel” with regard to Nixon. I think that he was wronged over the Watergate scandal. It was nothing in comparison to the scandals that followed. However, he lied and he covered up…
    **************************************
    I, too, agree with both you and CC, that Nixon was wronged over the Watergate scandal. Those were very rough days and the country was in relative turmoil, having gone through a long, Vietnam War that had dragged on for years without being won.

  96. Should have said, “agree with you and CC”. Ha! Aussie, you are not two people.

  97. This is a great clip of Mark Levin interviewing Gloria allRED.
    http://www.marklevinshow.com/Article.asp?id=1970739&spid=32364

  98. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Cabby – AZ | October 3, 2010 at 7:23 pm |

    ================================

    Nixon did one of the most heinous specific things EVER to the US Economy. He took us off the Gold Standard – or more specifically took us off of even the fairy tale that we were on the gold standard – which we weren’t exactly.

    It is a “fun game” to pizz on Presidents for various acts they did or non-acts they should have done. Poor old Richard was shot in the back. By HIS PREDESESSORS and ANCESTORS. A hand reached out from the grave and grabbed him.

    (You will have to wait for my more complete essay, but here is THIS tidbit of our National Economic Disability.)

    The playing field was mostly set up in 1913 with the now hated Federal Reserve. FDR, further ruined the FUTURE economy to feed the then CURRENT economy. These is where future-rape started, on steroids.

    The specific incident which reached forward to the future and NAILED Poor Richard, was the Bretton Woods agreements following WW2. (We whine about not wanting a Gobal Economy or a Global Currency – sorry, that train left the station in 1947 or so.).

    The upshot was to take ALL the allied countries and take them off any gold or silver standards and base them ALL on a global currency. The exchange rates were then micro-managed by a world cabal of economic elites. Being the “bottom currency” in the pile has many advantages, and the US was willing and eager to accept that role.

    But the only way it works is via a Giant Ponzi Scheme. All of the countries have to be on a continuous spiral of INFLATION (hence, devaluation of the currencies in terms of their buying power). This inflation was supposed to be micromanaged by this elite. Well, they actually did pretty well (against their own self-charter) , but everybody forgot one thing.

    For SOME of the transaction between SOME of the countries for SOME of the commodities and trade, the US was supposed to have a reasonable base of actual Gold under the dollar. Over the next 20-30 years, essentially a single generation, the dollar was devalued from needing only 35 dollars to buy an ounce of gold, to needing HUNDREDS of dollars. This added to the fact that some of the involved countries actually demanded gold in exchange for dollars, BLEW UP THE US TREASURY.

    In 1971, the United States COULD NO LONGER provide Gold. So they just announced on day that they – in variance with all international agreements and all this micromanagement – would just quit honoring dollars for gold. No more gold period. If you were a country and had dollars, that is all you got, the FIAT DOLLARS. Dollars with NO VALUE other than the good will of the US treasury to honor them.

    Most people do not know this. This was the closest the US ever was to blowing itself up. This was the closest that the entire Western Europe came to blowing itself up. This was worse than Civil War. Worse than either WW. Worse than Cuba Missile Crisis.

    But the micro-manager world financial authorities, and economists, were able to work secretly with all the heads of states and diplomats, and everybody was fortunately understanding that if this thing blows up – THEY ALL BLOW UP. It is one of the few documented cases in international diplomacy where they figuratively ALL sat on a big powder keg, and couldn’t extinguish the fuse until a workable plan was agreed.)

    This actually got sorted our very quickly, but there were international pins and needles for a while. The BIG TRICK was to keep the vast public from losing confidence, even though the Economic Emperor HAD NO CLOTHES – not even the few rags he had before Nixon “closing the gold window” as they say. ALL THIS WAS HIDDEN FROM THE PUBLIC. “The public can’t handle the truth”. This was a big corner to turn that “proved” that in a complex multi-national world, We The People could not only not govern ourselves, but we couldn’t even be allowed to know the truth. Interestingly, this is still true – I what I am saying was made common knowledge through education or MSM – all classes of people worldwide would panic and “run” on the system. The BUBBLE would collapse. The Elites therefore “proved” that only they could handled the single most important and biggest piece of legitimate government.

    This is why Ron Paul and others want a return to a Gold Standard. LISTEN CAREFULLY, THIS IS CRITICAL: Something like a Gold Standard is the ONLY economic system that can run itself – it does not require an Elite to continuously turn the knobs. We will NEVER be a “We The People” again until this specific issue is dealt with FIRST.

    Since that time, the Western World – and now also the likes of East Europe, Russia, China, many other large and small countries, have all been riding on top of the “inherent value” of the US Dollar.

    Especially with Obama – trying to blow up our economy and pile on our debt, it makes the real value of the dollar less and, worse, makes the perceived value less. So, you see, this is not just an American problem of “spreading the wealth” or some such. This is an international entanglement of unimaginable proportions. (And you don’t even need any NWO hysteria, or Bad Jew Bankers, or anything else. This whole house of cards is plenty evil all by itself.)

    So – how did we get this Terrible Grand Ponzi System that almost destroyed the entire world, and may still?

    That is another long chapter in a long book. The simple answer is John Maynard Keynes – the biggest economic and financial CRANK in the history of the universe. In those days he was the Fair Haired Wonder Child and could do no wrong. His theories and mechanisms fixed most if not all the problems staring everybody in the face. And like our own Zero he was a master of sleight of hand and just swept any downstream objection.

    Finally – another long chapter of a long book. By people “in the know” Keynes had been largely discredited and PROVED wrong staring in the early 40’s and totally debunked and trash-heaped by 1950. So why was he not tarred and feathered?

    1. The whole world economy was set up on his advice and theories and any harm to him or his reputation would have DESTROYED THE WORLD.

    2. In order to make his system work, it takes A LOT OF GOVERNMENT micro managing the economy. So, guess who likes his theories most?

    So, even today, 2010, if you take an Economics Degree in a major Ivy League university, what and who do they teach? Who is the wise and noble leader. Kind of the same reverence that Jews would give, say, Moses, or Abraham? Come on. Guess!

    And where do things like TARP and OBAMA MONSTER STIMULUS come from? Guess. Straight out of the core teaching of Keynesian Economics.

    NOW ARE YOU BEGINNING TO UNDERSTAND THE NATURE OF THE PROBLEM. OBAMA IS EVIL AND A NUISANCE, BUT IN THE GREAT WORLD WEB, HE IS NOTHING BUT A NASTY SPIDER.

  99. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 8:59 pm |

    However, he lied and he covered up…

    ========================

    Yeah, and I would too, in a heartbeat. With all those Lunatic Liberals running after you with pitchforks and torches? YOU BETCHA.

  100. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    BIG UNANSWERED QUESTION FOR ALL RIGHT THINKERS AND EVEN RON PAUL DISCIPLES.

    Given the REAL international economic situation, Dollar as world reserve currency, total fiat money everywhere, house of cards of unimaginable proportions –

    Is it feasible to actually fix our national monetary system – and make it right – without blowing ourselves up – and without blowing up all Western Civilization – or maybe the whole world –

    Is it possible to replace – at least for USA the Keynesian Ponzi?

    Interestingly – with all the elites, with all the academicians, with all the practical business people, corporate tycoons, and wall street –

    The answer is not known.

    SLEEP TIGHT

  101. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 9:37 pm
    A very interesting commentary… I need to do more reading and study on this subject… it has implications for today’s global economy.

    However, the real culprit was not John Maynard Keynes. He was a player in Bretton Woods. He was a negotiator. He even helped to set up the IMF and the World Bank. Yet he was not the real culprit. It was Harry Dexter White.

  102. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 9:49 pm |

    We cannot go backwards. Australia moved to the freefall much later – it was in the 1980s…. and yes it was a freefall when we floated our exchange rate. The rate dropped dramatically in 1984, just as we were headed to the USA. The decline began and it kept on declining.

    To fix the world economy though I think we have to get rid of the Euro.

  103. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 9:55 pm |

    Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 9:37 pm

    However, the real culprit was not John Maynard Keynes. He was a player in Bretton Woods. He was a negotiator. He even helped to set up the IMF and the World Bank. Yet he was not the real culprit. It was Harry Dexter White.

    ====================================

    I refuse to get into a pisser with you or even try to say that I know more than you, or any or that. You are too valuable here and we have both been civil for a long time.

    But from what you have said earlier, we may just have to agree to part ways on this one.

    1. I agree Harry Dexter White was quite evil – and probably more directly responsible for American side of this than anybody. Further his later life contained many dark and unamerican things. So, no, I will not praise him at all.

    2. But the fact remains that this entire HOUSE OF CARDS was Keynes’ Theory. He was an advisor to make sure his theories were followed as closely as possible. Perhaps your knowledge or reading are stuck in the “Fair Haired Wonder Boy” stage. For 10-20 years ALL the world believed that and he was the world wide economic messiah. But there was sleight of hand – pushing problems to the future to improve the current – even in his theory, not just because it was badly implemented. A FUNDAMENTAL (hidden of course) mathematical result of his theory is that the Gold would run out sooner rather than later.

    3. Neither the IMF or World Bank are “good”. They are both now, and always were, what we fear the most – a “world currency”. Among other things, the USA was the major contributer and underdeveloped countries were the major recipients. This was worldwide “share the wealth” long before we started ridiculing that. There is nothing wrong with helping poor countries – but if it is our money, then we need to decide – not a world-cadre of Elites. Imagine this – and this is EXACTLY how the World Bank and IMF were set up. Imagine we give 100s of billions of dollars to the UN each year – then the normal processes and administration of the UN passes out the money to who THEY think is deserving. Sorry – I just can go there – it is far far deep deep against everything I know and believe.

    PEACE! I mean it – your one of the best here!

  104. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    Late – gotta go –

    I sure hope that by tomorrow everyone has “read the memo” or at least CW “benches” the belligerent offenders. So far, today seemed a little better, but perhaps it was an accident or normal ebb and flow. I sure did not see any evidence that anybody had be spanked.

    SIGH.

    I would have thought this would have put a nail in the coffin for ever. Absolutely demonstrated what I have been complaining about all along. Disinformation, misinformation, lack of understanding, pontification on topics of low expertise – whoever or whenever these kinds of things occur, we or CW need to be able to suppress it.

    
    Most revealing statement made
    on this blog in many months.
    Do not pass it up.  Explains much.
    
    https://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2010/10/02/rush-limbaugh-obama-a-foreigner-we-dont-need-birth-certificate-citizen-wells-open-thread-october-2-2010/#comment-163134
    
    

    Most of you have probably seen this – but there may be new lurkers who need an introduction and an education. Also see here for a summary.

    https://citizenwells.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/obama-dc-rally-socialists-marxists-liberals-citizen-wells-open-thread-october-3-2010/#comment-163257

  105. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 3, 2010 at 10:16 pm |
    You are not wrong about Keynesian theory. It has had its day. The theory works best in a managed economy. Even in Australia where we used Keynesian economics up until the 1970s it seemed to work!!

    However, Keynes was the first to admit that it was only a theory, and that it could be proved wrong. The mistake made by Keynesians is that they cannot see that there is a hole in the theory.

    I was studying economics at the very time when Keynsian theory collapsed in a heap. It was in 1973 when I heard the term Stagflation for the very first time. It was almost towards the end of the university year when Stagflation began to hit for the very first time, and it was the time when suddenly the Keynesian economists had to rethink their propositions. Sadly a lot of them, including Richard Krugman have failed to do the work with regard to Keynesian theory. None of them have followed up on the period known as Stagflation, and they have not bothered to find out why Keynesian theory failed. I am only at the beginning of studying the subject, after a very long absence away from the study of economics (I prefer Economic History).

    Whilst I am soft on Keynes, I am not so soft on his disciples, since they are the ones who have continued to make the very mistakes made by Keynes and it is their policy advice that is failing all of us. Keynes, in his time, during the Great Depression had some things correct. What has to be considered is that those policies were only good for a limited time.

    Most of the Keynesian theory is qualified by the period in which he lived, and in which he observed certain economic factors. He was a post first world war 1 economist. He saw what went wrong with the Versailles Treaty and the reparations. I do not believe that he ever considered that his own ideas could be so damaging so many years after world war 2. (It is a very different story with regard to Harry Dexter White – yes I know what he was).

    The problem that we have today though is due the the resurgence of Keynesianism. That is the fault of those economists who have been too lazy to study what took place in the 1970s. All they have wanted to do is follow the old advice without thinking about the consequences.

    To me, as a mediocre economist, the stand out remains the 197os. What went wrong? Why did it go wrong? How was it fixed? How did so many nations stray and end up falling in a heap in 2008?

  106. @CC,
    to continue here, and speaking to the Australian experience only:

    Australia set up what is known as the Reserve Bank. It is similar to your own Federal Bank. It determines economic policy e.g. it evaluates the rate of inflation and if it thinks that the economy is heating up, it takes action to raise the interest rate – translated that means that the Reserve Bank interferes and causes our mortgage interest rates to rise which hits us in the hip pocket. There have been many occasions where I think that the decisions of the Board of Governors of the Reserve Bank has been partisan in that their decisions tend to favour the ALP. However, to the extent that the Australian economy is managed by the Reserve Bank we have done quite well for many years.

    That being said, the upheaval of the 1970s, including the 1970s had ramifications well into the 1980s and beyond. As I have pointed out, this period has not been fully studied. I am still lacking a lot of data regarding the whole period. Many of the “reforms” did not take place until the 1980s. I was always against the floating of the exchange rate. Up until that happened we had a rather static exchange rate. However, over time I have seen how there have been some benefits for the exchange rate to be floating. (even though that first period did hurt us a lot!!!!!)

    With all of the reforms, Australia’s economy did strengthen over a period of time… until we got to the GFC. The difference between the impact of the GFC on the USA, Europe and Australia is, I think, the banking controls that we have in Australia. Yes, we have controls which were introduced at the time of the Depression and those controls more or less kept us from the disaster that happened elsewhere… except of course we had an ALP wasteful govt that decided to dish out our money as pork. Yes. we had our own porkulus bill.

  107. @CC continuing>

    It is true that I am not as hard on Keynes, and it is probably because I was influenced by his theory of Employment and Money. If I could find my copy that I had from my student days and read it, I might have a very different opinion!!

    However, he at least thought about the subject. He did not give us the Malthus time theory. He gave us a theory based upon his own observations during and after the first world war. I do not know whether or not he actually got to study the economy of the Soviet Union because during his life the Soviet Union with its command economy was an absolute mess. He did however, understand that what he was advocating worked best in a Soviet style system (even there he was probably wrong!!).

    Governments who have followed Keynesian economics have done so imperfectly. FDR did not implement Keynes. He went well beyond the recommendations of Keynes because he actually interfered with the levels of production. I never got from reading Keynes that he advocated directly getting involved in determining how much in the way of farm produce could be produced. What sticks out for me is that recommendation of lower taxes in times of plenty, and more govt spending in times of recession. He also recommened that during a period of war that taxes should increase. I agree with that position!!

    I part company from Keynesian economics over a number of things. The first is the level of government spending. I believe that it should be lower most of the time except where there is a need for a short time to provide some support to the unemployed. I also believe in working for the dole.

    Since I am still studying the period of the 1970s I have yet to formulate all of the reasons why Keynesian economics failed at that time, especially when that failure followed an obvious blip like the first oil shock. Perhaps the move away from the gold standard forms a part of the big picture. I do not know. What I see is that Govt in the period prior to the stagflation was spending too much. What I also see is that this pattern has been repeated in Australia from about 2007 and in the USA from about 2008 (just prior to your Presidential election).

    There is much work to be done to find my answers. This will be partly explained by the failure of Keynesian economics, but it is only a part of the story… not the full story.

  108. Here is an excellent pictorial of the Communist October-May day rally:

    http://maroonedinmarin.blogspot.com/2010/10/one-nation-of-commies-unions-other.html

  109. here is an interesting video. The high school students were sent along to the Marxist rally with a promise of getting credit for being there:

    These are Asian students and I doubt that they actually understand what the really was about.

  110. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    AUSSIE – – –

    Thank you so much for the sane reply. Thank you for your perspective. For Economic History, read everything you can about Von Mises and the Austrian School (www.mises.org). They are one reason I hate Keynes – they got it right – and had it right BEFORE Keynes. Excellent insights from these particular books which are currently at the top of my Electric Reader (I “eat” this stuff for breakfast, and “breathe” it for air). If nothing else, the titles and scope (and years of initial publication) of these works is STUNNING. We have known the right answers and where Progressive Economy is taking us for MORE THAN 100 YEARS – and we still blindly ride that train.

    Clark, John Bates – The Distribution of Wealth, 1899

    Hayek, Friedrich – A Free Market Money System, 1979

    Hayek, Friedrich – Denationalisation of Money, 1976

    Hayek, Friedrich – Pretense of Knowledge, 1974

    Hayek, Friedrich – Prices and Production, and Other Works on Money, The Business Cycle, and the Gold Standard, 1931

    Hayek, Friedrich – The Intellectuals and Socialism, 1949

    Hayek, Friedrich – The Pure Theory of Capital, 1941

    Hayek, Friedrich – The Road to Serfdom, 1945

    Hazlitt, Henry – From Bretton Woods to World Inflation, 1984

    Hazlitt, Henry – The Failure of the “New (i.e. Keynesian) Economics” – 1959

    Jevons, W. Stanley – Money and the Mechanism of Exchange, 1896

    Jevons, W. Stanley – The Theory of Political Economy, 1871

    Keynes, John Maynard – The General Theory of Employment, Interest and Money, 1936

    Menger, Carl – Principles of Economics, 1871

    Mill, John Stuart – Principles of Political Economy, 1848

    Ricardo, David – Principles of Political Economy and Taxation, 1817

    Rothbard, Murray – America’s Great Depression, 1963

    Rothbard, Murray – Egalitarinism as a Revolt against Nature, and other Essays, 1974

    Rothbard, Murray – History of Economic Thought, Vol1 and Vol2, 1995

    Rothbard, Murray – Man, Economy, and State, 1962

    Rothbard, Murray – Power and Market, 1970

    Rothbard, Murray – The Betrayal of the American Right, 1971

    Rothbard, Murray – The Case against the Fed, 1994

    Rothbard, Murray – The Essential von Mises, 1973

    Rothbard, Murray – The Mystery of Banking, 1973?

    Rothbard, Murray – What has the Government done with our Money, 1963?

    Smith, Adam – The Wealth of Nations, 1776

    von BohmBawerk, Eugen – The Positive Theory of Capital

    von Mises, Ludwig – Epistemological Problems of Economics, 1960

    von Mises, Ludwig – Human Action, 1949

    von Mises, Ludwig – Liberalism, 1962

    von Mises, Ludwig – Liberty and Property, 1958

    von Mises, Ludwig – Nation, State, and Economy, 1919

    von Mises, Ludwig – Omnipotent Government, the Rise of the Total State and Total War, 1944

    von Mises, Ludwig – Socialism, 1922

    von Mises, Ludwig – Theory and History, 1957

    von Mises, Ludwig – Theory of Money and Credit, 1912

    Wicksteed, Philip H. – The Common Sense of Political Economy, Selected Papers, Vol1 and Vol2, 1933

    LUDWIG von Mises published many books and articles in his long and productive life, each of them making important contributions to the theory and application of economic science. But there stands out among them four towering masterpieces, immortal monuments to the work of the greatest economist and scientist of human action of our century. The first, which established Mises in the front rank of economists, was The Theory of Money and Credit (1912), which for the first time integrated the theory of money and the theory of relative prices, and outlined his later theory of the business cycle. Mises’s second great work was Socialism (1922), which provided the definitive, comprehensive critique of socialism and demonstrated that a socialist order could not calculate economically. The third was his stupendous treatise Human Action (1949), which set forth an entire structure of economics and analysis of acting man. All three of these works have made their mark in economics, and have been featured in the “Austrian” revival that has flowered in the United States over the past decade.

    But Mises’s fourth and last great work, Theory and History (1957), has made remarkably little impact, and has rarely been cited even by the young economists of the recent Austrian revival. It remains by far the most neglected masterwork of Mises. And yet it provides the philosophical backstop and elaboration of the philosophy underlying Human Action. It is Mises’s great methodological work, explaining the basis of his approach to economics, and providing scintillating critiques of such fallacious alternatives as historicism, scientism, and Marxian dialectical materialism.

    Finally a brilliant and amazing quote from the Nobel Laureate in Economics (apparently the NP used to mean something!):

    A claim for equality of
    material position can be
    met only be a government
    with totalitarian powers.
    F.A. Hayek

  111. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    PS – in regards Hazlitt’s voluminous and detailed critique of Keynesian Economics, modern writer and economic expert, Thomas E. Woods, Jr. made this pithy comment in his brilliant 2009 book: Meltdown. A Free-Market Look at Why the Stock Market Collapsed,the Economy Tanked, and Government Bailouts Will Make Things Worse

    If you wish to observe one of the great twentieth-century cranks rebutted line by line, this book is indispensable. As a point-by-point refutation of Keynes’s General Theory it unfortunately lacks an overall critique of Keynes’s system, but all the same it is the most devastating demolition of one intellectual by another I have ever seen anywhere, and it will give you a new and healthy contempt for anyone who points to Keynes as an economist, or as having anything worthwhile to say on economics.

    I don’t think Mr. Woods likes Lord Keynes any better than I do. LOL

  112. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO)

    BTW – Anybody is entitled to their own OPINION. But if you actually want to seriously debate me on ECONOMICS, you need to get a note from your mother that you have read all these books. Just sayin – – –

    (not meant for you Aussie – just for other random “wanna be experts” on this or that. If you know what I mean.)

  113. Re: Aussie | October 3, 2010 at 4:41 pm | Starla | October 3, 2010 at 4:37 pm |

    I can only hope that CW will see these ad hominem attacks and take the appropriate action. It really has to stop

    # # # #
    Aussie:
    What part of:
    (1) Skip my posts.
    (2) Ignore my posts.
    (3) Move on.
    (4) Get A Life & Grow Up Aussie…
    Do you NOT understand?

  114. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 4, 2010 at 3:58 pm |

    CC, I am currently reading a book that would be of interest to you that is written by Professor Charles K. Rowley.

    Since I have taken a renewed interest in this subject, I have discovered the Virginia School. I think that their work would be of interest to you.

  115. Starla | October 4, 2010 at 4:50 pm |
    I can only hope that CW will take action against you very soon because you have kept up this crap for way too long.

  116. # # # #
    Re: Aussie | October 4, 2010 at 5:17 pm |

    I can only hope that CW will take action against you very soon because you have kept up this crap for way too long.
    # # # #
    Aussie:
    What part of:
    (1) Skip my posts.
    (2) Ignore my posts.
    (3) Move on.
    (4) Get A Life & Grow Up Aussie…
    Do you NOT understand?

  117. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 4, 2010 at 3:58 pm |

    CC – Keynes himself stated that he proposed a “theory”. He at least realized that he could have been wrong. I have no doubt that he would be pleased to see economists taking his work seriously and then rebutting it.

    The problem is not so much Keynes as it is those who took his work, and rather than rebutting or questioning what he said, they actually taught it!! Most of these individuals are dishonest economists or dishonest intellectuals. Dick Krugman is the one that I hate more than Keynes.

    I look at it this way, Keynes was from England. He was observing a totally different set of circumstances than what was taking place in the USA. He proposed a theory. His major work came out in the middle of the Great Depression. I doubt that he influenced FDR all that much. The reason I say that is FDR was more influenced by Socialism aka Marxism at the time. So you probably have some parallel ideas at work.

    Since I am so much younger, and did not live through those hard times, it is harder to get a handle on what actually took place. What I do know is that even in Australia the influence of Karl Marx was overwhelming. Again I have a greater distaste for Marx than I have of Lord Keynes.

  118. Citizen Carlyle (FUBO) | October 4, 2010 at 4:01 pm |
    to follow on CC:

    When Keynesian economics was so thoroughly discredited in the 1970s it should have been thrown out the door. Instead you have people like Krugman who have kept it alive and who have revived the discredited theory actually demanding that these Keynesian ideas be implemented. This has been the case during the Øbama regime.

    On top of that Keynesian economists throughout the world have been demanding that world governments follow the lead of the U.S.

    Look how well that turned out in Europe!! England, France, and Germany had all put in place a “stimulus” package. There was pressure on Germany to go further but Angela Merkel refused to implement a further stimulus. Then there is the case of Greece. Yes, I do know that it is a bit different and definitely has nothing to do with Keynesian economics. The point here is that the advice given by prominent economists to the European Union, the USA and Australia, as well as Japan and other nations was to follow the Keynesian model because of the GFC. Yet it was, and remains the wrong prescription.

  119. CC you might be interested in this link:

    http://charlesrowley.wordpress.com/2010/10/03/president-obama-and-congress-beggar-their-neighbors/

    The good professor has provided a short essay that seems to be on topic to some of the things that we have discussed 🙂

  120. “ANDREW NAPOLITANO: THE VERDICT ON OBAMA’S INSANE FINANCIAL OVERHAUL PLAN”

    “TenthAmendmentCenter | June 20, 2009
    Judge Andrew Napolitano says Obama’s financial overhaul plan, which gives the Federal Reserve even more unconstitutional authority, is madness.”

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ernGgFBNL74&feature=related

    # # # #

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